[MetroMan]

This does put Tory's almost irrational support of the Eastern Gardiner rebuild into proper context. Why spend more money (that we don't have) to rebuild the little used Eastern Gardiner than to tear it down and free up development land?
We now have the answer: a continuous Gardiner/DVP allows for tolling and gives Tory a major gesture to point to as being pro-car.

I suppose the reworking of the eastern end of the Gardiner might be ready? I would think that politically it may make sense for the initial funds to be invested in some sort of road project, to somewhat placate drivers.

I agree, he's going to have to get a large pro-car infrastructure project started before 2018 and the Eastern Gardiner is the best candidate.

 

[Tulse]

I agree, he's going to have to get a large pro-car infrastructure project started before 2018 and the Eastern Gardiner is the best candidate.

If the Eastern Gardiner rebuild is the price we have to pay for new sustainable transportation funding, that seems like a pretty good trade to me.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This does put Tory's almost irrational support of the Eastern Gardiner rebuild into proper context. Why spend more money (that we don't have) to rebuild the little used Eastern Gardiner than to tear it down?
A continuous Gardiner/DVP allows for tolling and gives Tory a major gesture to point to as being pro-car.

Well I don't believe Tory, even privately, supported a poll back when the Gardiner debate was happening. So its not as if his rational would've been that rebuilding the Gardiner East would make tolls and easier sell. But its still a happy accident.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Another wonderful thing about this toll is that we'll finally have continual funds, more than $300 Million/year, to build rapid transit expansion for our city. This means that our future transit debates shouldn't be as hung up on by questions on how we'll pay for it.

 

[ottbike]

If Council approves road tolls very soon, hopefully they could begin the RFP almost immediately in order to have the system in place before the 2018 election. The last thing we need is a challenger to make it their mission in 2018 to undo the tolls plan.

I'm wondering if the City could just work with the 407 east team to add on to an existing order for the video equipment which was recently purchased. I'm sure the City will want to use a similar system so the 407 transponders could be used on the DVP/Gardiner. This might make the implementation process much faster since the City could have a local "off the shelf" option.

 

[MetroMan]

If the Eastern Gardiner rebuild is the price we have to pay for new sustainable transportation funding, that seems like a pretty good trade to me.

The Gardiner is set to become an actual Express-Way. A premium road flying over the city for those who want to pay for it. Locals will be able take Lakeshore across town.

The downside: we'll never be rid of the Gardiner since we're going to rely too heavily on its revenue going forward.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm wondering if the City could just work with the 407 east team to add on to an existing order for the video equipment which was recently purchased

Probably wont work. 407 east is 99% complete now, and the order for the video equipment should be completed by now. If we wanted to add on to 407 order, we'd need to have done it in the early stages of the 407 East project

Edit: Phase 2 of 407 East hasn't even started, so this could work actually.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I noticed that the image below claims that "road pricing" could be implemented in just 18 months. Why would it take until 2024 for tolling to start?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Gantries on phase 2 of the 407 East won't be installed until 2020 in some parts when the last bit of the highway opens. You could easily extend that contract for more units.

 

[ottbike]

Probably wont work. 407 east is 99% complete now, and the order for the video equipment should be completed by now. If we wanted to add on to 407 order, we'd need to have done it in the early stages of the 407 East project

They could at least have a starting point - possibly rationale for a sole sourced contract.

 

[MetroMan]

If Council approves road tolls very soon, hopefully they could begin the RFP almost immediately in order to have the system in place before the 2018 election. The last thing we need is a challenger to make it their mission in 2018 to undo the tolls plan.

I'm wondering if the City could just work with the 407 east team to add on to an existing order for the video equipment which was recently purchased. I'm sure the City will want to use a similar system so the 407 transponders could be used on the DVP/Gardiner. This might make the implementation process much faster since the City could have a local "off the shelf" option.

Read some of my posts above. To make tolls irreversible, all that is needed is to start spending the money from future toll revenues. A future mayor won't be able to cut that revenue because the money will have already begun to be spent. Where else is a future mayor going to find $300M a year?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The fact that the City recently negotiated with the Province to have the Province pay $200 Million to complete the engineering work of the entire Relief Line has me hopeful that the whole project might be funded through these tolls (with contributions from other levels go government). I'm under the impression that the complete Relief Line is a very easy project for both Old Toronto and the Inner Suburbs to rally behind, and would be very difficult for future politicians to cancel.

 

[TransitBart]

Very good to hear. However tolling won't start until 2024?

There are many reasons. One could be that if you are going to change the cost economics of travel as a government, then you must provide economical and/or superior alternatives. GO RER is supposed to be in place at that time. If the toll changes the economics for you, then there should be a proper (cost, convenience, time) public transit alternative.

 

[Tuscani01]

Read some of my posts above. To make tolls irreversible, all that is needed is to start spending the money from future toll revenues. A future mayor won't be able to cut that revenue because the money will have already begun to be spent. Where else is a future mayor going to find $300M a year?

Also, the Spadina Subway extension, Eglinton Crosstown, Finch West LRT, and GO RER/Smart Track will be running by then. (Also high likelihood of a transit mall along King)

It's the lack of transit options that those against tolls always point to as a reason not to toll. These projects will help end that argument.

 

[chicu1981]

Read some of my posts above. To make tolls irreversible, all that is needed is to start spending the money from future toll revenues. A future mayor won't be able to cut that revenue because the money will have already begun to be spent. Where else is a future mayor going to find $300M a year?

Typical public servant attitude. Why would you spend money based on future revenue just for the sake of "just spending money"? WTF is wrong with you? "Spend money" just to undermine the future government? Would you max out the credit credit card of your children leave them to pay for your "Spending"?

pathetic. This road tolling is a terrible idea and it would fail miserably.