afransen said:
It would be impossible to provide the level of local service you have with King streetcar using subway. I'm not saying King shouldn't get a subway eventually, just that when it does get a subway we may still want to have the streetcar for local service.
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Bloor-Danforth seems to manage fine.
 
sixrings said:
You’re right. We should have built a subway in Kitchener. And Hamilton should skip their brt plans and go straight to subway. And damn it hurontario is home to three go stations two which will have underground lrt stations so why not make the entire thing a subway. None of these lrt plans make any sense.
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If only there were a mode that was between a subway and "light rail", a sort of light subway or light metro you might say.
TheTigerMaster said:
I'm all for elevated transport in the suburbs, but hitching your wagon to ICTS is a risky move, with not a lot of benefits. An elevated network of intermediate capacity mass transit vehicles would've served just fine.
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I do not really get why everyone thinks light metro supporters (if they can be called that) want ICTS, why can't we have the Canada Line, or Copenhagen Metro, or REM tech? Its light metro and should work fine in snow.
syn said:
It makes perfect sense when the plan is to add significant density to the area.



When has building transit and hoping people would come ever worked? The Sheppard Line is a cautionary tale that we're all too willing to ignore.

Higher order transit used to be built in areas that have the density and ridership to justify it. That's exactly why Hurontario is getting an LRT.

Instead we've spent the past 50+ years doing the opposite. The results are obvious.
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The issue with the Sheppard Line is that it isn't all that useful, people travelling across sheppard have to do a linear transfer onto a subway line that you can travel end to end in ten minutes. If it connected to Sheppard West and STC it would actually start to be useful by itself.
 
superelevation said:
If only there were a mode that was between a subway and "light rail", a sort of light subway or light metro you might say.

I do not really get why everyone thinks light metro supporters (if they can be called that) want ICTS, why can't we have the Canada Line, or Copenhagen Metro, or REM tech? Its light metro and should work fine in snow.

The issue with the Sheppard Line is that it isn't all that useful, people travelling across sheppard have to do a linear transfer onto a subway line that you can travel end to end in ten minutes. If it connected to Sheppard West and STC it would actually start to be useful by itself.
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TTC is now paying riders $17 per trip to ride the Sheppard subway today, are you willing to pay close to $200 per rider if not more to use a under use line from Sheppard West to STC??? TTC has already refused to close or convert the current line that is supposed to cost $600 million to convert..

Far cheaper to put an LRT on Sheppard from end to end than to put anything else in place of the current subway with the subway being close until there is a need for it.

There isn't nor will there be a mode between Metro and LRT.

Anyway, wrong thread for this discussion.
 
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drum118 said:
TTC is now paying riders $17 per trip to ride the Sheppard subway today, are you willing to pay close to $200 per rider if not more to use a under use line from Sheppard West to STC??? TTC has already refused to close or convert the current line that is supposed to cost $600 million to convert..

Far cheaper to put an LRT on Sheppard from end to end than to put anything else in place of the current subway with the subway being close until there is a need for it.

There isn't nor will there be a mode between Metro and LRT.

Anyway, wrong thread for this discussion.
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How are you so sure that this is the number we'll have to pay if it is extended? The thing with the Sheppard Line is that it gets good ridership in spite of what it is. The fact that its ridership per km matches that of Atlanta's entire network despite only being 5km long is impressive, but it also speaks a lot. Sheppard has low ridership because its unfinished, and for many people using it is a big hassle. If you're going to the Yonge line, you have to take a bus to Sheppard, then get on another bus to Don Mills, then transfer to the subway and ride it for 4 stops where you transfer AGAIN to reach the Yonge Line platform. This makes using transit extremely inconvenient which overall discourages its use, meaning the only people that use it are those who don't have the luxury of using a car. There are a ton of condos popping up around Sheppard Avenue, especially at Bessarion, Victoria Park, and Agincourt, however these are all car oriented condos with large parking lots that encourage owning a car. The Sheppard East LRT doesn't solve any of this. All it does is just make the Sheppard Bus higher capacity. If you extended the Sheppard Line to STC and Sheppard West so that the line actually goes somewhere (where it becomes a proper transit line that connects several dense nodes), the transit ridership would increase dramatically.
 
superelevation said:
The issue with the Sheppard Line is that it isn't all that useful, people travelling across sheppard have to do a linear transfer onto a subway line that you can travel end to end in ten minutes. If it connected to Sheppard West and STC it would actually start to be useful by itself.
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It isn't?

You mean the nearly 6km of subway doesn't offer any value to developers? There was no reason to add density the corridor?
 
ARG1 said:
A major issue we're going to start seeing with services like the Finch West LRT is that its entirely possible that due to the tight stop spacing, and the fact that the LRT will most likely have to make all stops without a stop request feature, it might actually be slower than the previous bus route.
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Waterloo region's ION is definitely slower than the number 7 bus at 9:00 p.m., but over twice as fast as the 200 iXpress bus it replaced at 9:00 a.m. Everything in this world is a compromise and this was a good one, the vertical development boom that it's ushered in for the region is a great thing that no bus route would ever have accomplished. I can't comment on Finch, but suspect that for Hurontario it will be similar.
 
ARG1 said:
How are you so sure that this is the number we'll have to pay if it is extended? The thing with the Sheppard Line is that it gets good ridership in spite of what it is. The fact that its ridership per km matches that of Atlanta's entire network despite only being 5km long is impressive, but it also speaks a lot. Sheppard has low ridership because its unfinished, and for many people using it is a big hassle. If you're going to the Yonge line, you have to take a bus to Sheppard, then get on another bus to Don Mills, then transfer to the subway and ride it for 4 stops where you transfer AGAIN to reach the Yonge Line platform. This makes using transit extremely inconvenient which overall discourages its use, meaning the only people that use it are those who don't have the luxury of using a car. There are a ton of condos popping up around Sheppard Avenue, especially at Bessarion, Victoria Park, and Agincourt, however these are all car oriented condos with large parking lots that encourage owning a car. The Sheppard East LRT doesn't solve any of this. All it does is just make the Sheppard Bus higher capacity. If you extended the Sheppard Line to STC and Sheppard West so that the line actually goes somewhere (where it becomes a proper transit line that connects several dense nodes), the transit ridership would increase dramatically.
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You left out the ridiculous transfer at Sheppard-Yonge between the Sheppard line and Sheppard West buses.
Otherwise, I fully agree.
 
ARG1 said:
Factually Untrue. When the Yonge Subway was built, it ran through what was at the time the middle of nowhere, now Bloor-Yonge and Midtown are all significantly built up.
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That's definitely not true:

www.blogto.com

A snapshot of Yonge and Eglinton in the 1950s

Toronto's main midtown intersection has undergone profound changes over the last sixty years. From low-rise neighbourhood shopping district to neon...
www.blogto.com www.blogto.com

Relatively low density at the terminus? Sure; greenfield? Definitely not. And it most certainly isn't true at Yonge-Bloor. That's not to mention that Yonge had been a spine for higher order transit for years even back before the initial Yonge line was put in place.

Anyways, I think the conversation might need to pivot back to Hurontario LRT.

AoD
 
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Highway 10 (Hurontario) and Highway 5 (Dundas Street) in 1948.

tspa_0106249f.jpg

Most of the buildings were torn down for widening the road or parking lots. 😪

From link.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Highway 10 (Hurontario) and Highway 5 (Dundas Street) in 1948.

tspa_0106249f.jpg

Most of the buildings were torn down for widening the road or parking lots. 😪

From link.
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Looking at that pic, it's funny that many of these historic places that are thought of as being sizeable settlements prior to urbanization were little more than hamlets.
 
I imagine people who used to live there being completely gob-smacked at what Mississauga and the GTA looks like now.
 
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