Seems to me the developers of this project are just using this to increase the value of their air rights. No way this is ever getting built. Leverage to get more cash out of the city......IMO
They are likely not building over the railway tracks due to the additional cost. There is a pension fund involved so they should have the financing to build. The way I see it, it'll get built but what it looks like in the end, that's the real question.
 
Seems to me the developers of this project are just using this to increase the value of their air rights. No way this is ever getting built. Leverage to get more cash out of the city......IMO
Folks are still arguing this I see. I'm not seeing the supporting evidence of that though....as this seems a bit more than a zoning right exercise of showing off whose is bigger. Just saying.
 
They are likely not building over the railway tracks due to the additional cost. There is a pension fund involved so they should have the financing to build. The way I see it, it'll get built but what it looks like in the end, that's the real question.
They have the financing to build the revenue-generating parts, but I suspect they don't have the financing to build the park. They will try to make sure the city ponies up a good chunk of that $1.7B otherwise all you'll have is 9 new towers and no new park space.
 
Look at this beautiful park that just opened in New York City. This is the kind of stuff that Toronto needs to aspire to.


Looks like a good effort; but worth saying, we already have a lot of spaces that are comparable or better.

We are in the midst of adding a new park system next to a re-aligned naturalized Don River, one which will feature, canoes, kayaks, outdoor classrooms, a destination playground and much more.

We have the Brickworks which has a cafe in it now.

****

Important to note, I created an entire thread here where I critique problematic park design in this City. So I'm certainly not defending the City when it comes up short.

But when I see a space like this highlighted, it makes me wonder if people have visited the Brickworks, or Corktown Common, or a host or a host of other great spaces around Toronto.

****

In respect of ORCA, the proposal and its proposed park space are very problematic for reasons already noted in this thread.
 
Last edited:
Look at this beautiful park that just opened in New York City. This is the kind of stuff that Toronto needs to aspire to.

I got tickets to go here in 2 weeks! Another thing to remember is this cost $235 million USD for just over 2 acres of space. It's a neat project but part of me can't help but think it's partially a tourist attraction and an amenity for the rich (Meatpacking District, West Village types). With respect to Toronto there are some great park projects (as Northern Light mentioned) in the works that are coming in at the right time. New York doesn't have space for more parks in Manhattan so they get avant garde parks like this to supplement for that void along with more focused investing towards other parks like Domino Park and Hunter's Point Park.
 
Looks like a good effort; but worth saying, we already have a lot of spaces that are comparable or better.

We are in the midst of adding a new park system next to a re-aligned naturalized Don River, one which will feature, canoes, kayaks, outdoor classrooms, a destination playground and much more.

We have the Brickworks which has a cafe in it now.

****

Important to note, I created an entire thread here where I critique problematic park design in this City. So I'm certainly not defending the City when it comes up short.

But when I see a space like this highlighted, it makes me wonder if people have visited the Brickworks, or Cortown Common, or a host or a host of other great spaces around Toronto.

****

In respect of ORCA, the proposal and its proposed park space are very problematic for reasons already noted in this thread.

The Brickworks is quite far from downtown. And that Don River Park is still being built. That will be judged when it's done. This park is right in Manhattan and its quite creative in its design and architecture. Toronto needs more parks in the core. We can build something similar on the shore of Lake Ontario.
 
Toronto needs more parks in the core. We can build something similar on the shore of Lake Ontario.
As much as I would love to see that, we need to start by:

1. Actually maintaining what we have well.
2. Beautifying our streetscape.
3. Valuing design in the buildings/spaces we build.

Side note: if you want spaces like Little Island we also need a lot more entrepreneurs who make boat loads and are willing to invest in the city.
 
Hi all,
New in this great conversation. I was actually wondering, although they have air rights, how does this impact ground/land rights today owned by Metrolinx? Can they set up their foundations as it "pleases" them? Or is there some kind of agreement between all parties? I can imagine buildings having a considerable impact on the railway and fly under below given their size.
 
Hi all,
New in this great conversation. I was actually wondering, although they have air rights, how does this impact ground/land rights today owned by Metrolinx? Can they set up their foundations as it "pleases" them? Or is there some kind of agreement between all parties? I can imagine buildings having a considerable impact on the railway and fly under below given their size.

It's a good question. I would assume the rights and obligations of the ground owners and air rights owners are set out within and governed by the contract in which the air rights were sold. Hopefully someone with more direct knowledge of this site will weigh in to confirm.

I am also replying just to welcome you to the forum. Glad to have you here!
 
We can build something similar on the shore of Lake Ontario.

We just need a billionaire to part with $320M to fund the construction of it.
 
The Mayor needs to ask the Billionaires and other wealthy people in Toronto to pony up and partially fund this. That's how Millennium Park was funded through private channels.

Otherwise, we have no choice but to accept a slimmed down version of the park with condos.
Some of the billionaires are already contributing significantly to many other things around the city, so I'm not sure why they alone would have to be responsible for a park that would cost almost two-billion dollars (and which can't be built anyway now).

The whole city is not considered park-deficient; this particular portion of the downtown is. It is, and always has been, a difficult argument to suggest such a massive expenditure for just a park. In my opinion, the city and the applicant should have looked at working together at some form of joint effort that could have resulted in some kind of development and the retention of a significant area for green space. Instead, we ended up with conflict.

The critique that the applicants plans are not good because the increased heights of the area to accommodate parking is not conclusive. That's like saying you can't a have a park with a hill. Why would a multi-metre change in height be worse than some sort of a flat slab? It could be a unique and attractive feature. The idea should be to remain open to something unique and creative, all the while enabling development that could accommodate or underwrite part of the cost of this effort.

Regardless of the outcome, the development of this site will likely be a long time coming. And while a park was the hoped-for outcome by many, given the complaints of how the city actually manages and maintains these green spaces, a park-only effort was not necessarily a huge confidence-builder. Obviously a larger-portion of the cost is almost all on the structure. Should that have resulted in cost-overruns, the "park" might have ended up being a glorified grassed-over slab. At nearly two-billion in city funds, politicians would have a lot of answering to do to the taxpayers who had to pay for it. And some people were calling for a tax increase to do just that.

I know there is an idea floating around that this has been nothing more than a site-flipping exercise carried out by the applicant to drive up the price of the location, but that remains to be seen. The LPAT exercise did show that the venture would require a lot of players with serious capital and experience in this type of development, so who knows, maybe they are very interested in moving on this.

In the end, it is very likely that the only way to get this area decked over with some green space on it will be to include some significant development.
 
First piece:

1636466461947.png
 

Back
Top