[Rainforest]

Jane Street is one of the densest corridors in suburban Toronto, and as you've pointed out it has amongst the highest bus ridership. If we're building a northwest subway line to serve the most people, straight up Jane Street is where it should go. Jane would also be the easiest route to intensity with transit oriented development However as we get closer to Steeles, we'll see increasing route duplication with the TYSSE, when we could have otherwise spread out transit coverage around northern Etobicoke.

Another option would be to have the line travel towards Rexdale. However that area of the city is lower density, and would likely less less ridership than a line on Jane street. This would also leave large parts of Jane Street (again, one of the busiest bus corridors) without higher order transit.

Or we could take a page out of Vancouver's playbook, and build this elevated line with branches. One branch on Jane towards Steeles, and the other towards Rexdale. Northern Etobicoke would go from having some of the worst transit coverage in the city, to having some of the best.

If the funding is in short supply (usually it is), then I think I'd go for Rexdale at the end. For example, the new Light Metro line could run along Dundas through the downtown, then cross Bloor at Dundas or at Keele. Continuing north-west, the line could hit Jane at Annette or at Dundas (can't hit Jane&Bloor because the High Park grounds would be in the way). Then it could turn up Jane and continue north until it hits the Black Creek interchange. That section along Jane would be underground rather than elevated (the street is not too wide).

And then it could run in the Black Creek and 401 corridors into Etobicoke, then turn up Kipling and possibly continue all the way up to Steeles. The Black Creek and 401 sections could be at-grade with bridges over the obstacles, while the Kipling section would be tunneled or elevated.

That leaves gaps on Jane from Bloor to Dundas, and from Lawrence to Stelees. The northern gap could be filled with an LRT or BRT (the width is mostly sufficient for 6 lanes). The small gap in the south would have to do with a regular bus.

On the other hand, if the deficit-based funding of transit continues for a long time, then the second Light Metro branch, elevated over the northern section of Jane, may be doable. Or you can even have 2 separate lines, one from Rexdale to downtown, the other serving Jane from Steeles to Bloor, both lines sharing the tracks between Dundas and Lawrence.

 

[nfitz]

1. Metrolinx wants OL to relief Union station by transferring the GO riders to OL at East Harbor and at the Exhibition. They are going to fail at East Harbor; why would you want to transfer if the OL trains are quite full by the time they get there.

I doubt that Ontario Line will be that full at East Harbour - at least for a few years. Probably depends on destination - if you are heading to Queen/University or Dundas station (which is the station with the most AM Peak arrivals), then there's a huge disincentive not to change - and that's before accounting for the potentially long walk from the GO platforms at Union to the subway, and the slower speed approaching Union.

If full trains were a major factor, then few would change from the Bloor line to the Yonge line, in AM Peak!

As for the alignment of a future extension of the Ontario Line - I'm agnostic (and perhaps two branches might be in order!).

But I always thought the study area was interesting - and suggests that an extension would go a direction no one here every discusses.

Turning north on Dufferin! That would solve the Dufferin bus nightmare south of Bloor.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I doubt that Ontario Line will be that full at East Harbour - at least for a few years. Probably depends on destination - if you are heading to Queen/University or Dundas station (which is the station with the most AM Peak arrivals), then there's a huge disincentive not to change - and that's before accounting for the potentially long walk from the GO platforms at Union to the subway, and the slower speed approaching Union.

If full trains were a major factor, then few would change from the Bloor line to the Yonge line, in AM Peak!

As for the alignment of a future extension of the Ontario Line - I'm agnostic (and perhaps two branches might be in order!).

But I always thought the study area was interesting - and suggests that an extension would go a direction no one here every discusses.

Turning north on Dufferin! That would solve the Dufferin bus nightmare south of Bloor.
View attachment 364235

I do feel that a subway on Dufferin would see heavy usage.

This does begs the question of where would a Dufferin subway line go as it approaches Eglinton, where it would get very close to the Spadina Line.

 

[sirstclair]

If you want a line in Rexdale, it would be best if you extend the Sheppard Subway all the way to the Airport.

 

[nfitz]

I do feel that a subway on Dufferin would see heavy usage.

This does begs the question of where would a Dufferin subway line go as it approaches Eglinton, where it would get very close to the Spadina Line.

I'd think it would have to start angling west somewhere. Perhaps hit Eglinton at Caledonia to meet the GO, and the Kitchener line at Weston. Then to Brampton? Perhaps Pearson taking over the UP Express? Maybe both as branches?

I don't see any of it happening soon.

 

[Rainforest]

If you want a line in Rexdale, it would be best if you extend the Sheppard Subway all the way to the Airport.

Yes, that's another option. Although, the chance of that extension will be greater if the Sheppard Subway is converted to light metro.

 

[Rainforest]

I doubt that Ontario Line will be that full at East Harbour - at least for a few years. Probably depends on destination - if you are heading to Queen/University or Dundas station (which is the station with the most AM Peak arrivals), then there's a huge disincentive not to change - and that's before accounting for the potentially long walk from the GO platforms at Union to the subway, and the slower speed approaching Union.

If full trains were a major factor, then few would change from the Bloor line to the Yonge line, in AM Peak!

As for the alignment of a future extension of the Ontario Line - I'm agnostic (and perhaps two branches might be in order!).

But I always thought the study area was interesting - and suggests that an extension would go a direction no one here every discusses.

Turning north on Dufferin! That would solve the Dufferin bus nightmare south of Bloor.
View attachment 364235

Indeed the Dufferin bus is very busy, both south of Bloor and between Bloor and Eglinton. Therefore, an OL extension, or another light metro line up Dufferin, would be well used.

But I don't know whether OL can actually turn that way. The Exhibition terminus will be just east of Dufferin, and at grade. The OL trains will be more agile than the conventional TTC subway trains; but will they be agile enough to go into a tunnel and make a 90 degrees turn in the short distance available .. Note that the study area map is a bit strange, it still shows the Dufferin St jog at Queen that has been eliminated more than a decade ago. I'm not sure that whoever made that map, paid much attention to little technical details.

Speaking of the transfer at East Harbor vs transfer at Bloor&Yonge: many riders who transfer at Bloor&Yonge have no other viable option to reach downtown. I knew some people travelling from the east and transferring to the King streetcar at Broadview to avoid the Bloor&Yonge mess, but that bypass adds 20-25 min to the travel time.

In case of East Harbor: if I am a GO rider and my destination is somewhere near Yonge & Queen, and I can't get on the OL train easily, then I'd rather stay on GO till Union and then walk using the Path tunnels. That's just 5 to 10 minutes extra, but less stress and uncertainity.

 

[nfitz]

But I don't know whether OL can actually turn that way. The Exhibition terminus will be just east of Dufferin, and at grade. The OL trains will be more agile than the conventional TTC subway trains; but will they be agile enough to go into a tunnel and make a 90 degrees turn in the short distance available

That's a good question. Though there's still 2 or 3 blocks. And though it's at grade, it's in a cut (especially at Dufferin), so the elevation change isn't too bad. Though they may need to do cut-and-cover to a point on Dufferin to put/retrieve TBMs.

In case of East Harbor: if I am a GO rider and my destination is somewhere near Yonge & Queen, and I can't get on the OL train easily, then I'd rather stay on GO till Union and then walk using the Path tunnels. That's just 5 to 10 minutes extra, but less stress and uncertainity.

Google Maps says 15 minutes walk on Path to Yonge/Queen. King is more likely, as it's also a walk from Queen. And Dundas ...

 

[asher__jo]

something like this could be really interesting...
View attachment 364390

Leave that in the fantasy forum.

 

[ARG1]

Leave that in the fantasy forum.

No, I think its quite appropriate here. Fantasy Maps Thread is meant for broad discussions on fantastical ideas. Providing ideas for the future of a planned line is quite in line in its respective thread.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If you want a line in Rexdale, it would be best if you extend the Sheppard Subway all the way to the Airport.

There doesn’t exist that much travel demand between Rexdale and North York Centre. Trips downtown would require a trip on Line 4 and then on Line 1, which would be significantly slower than a presumptive OL extension to Rexdale. I don’t believe this routing would generate enough usage to be worth the money.

Also the TR rolling stock is less flexible and more difficult to put in an elevated guideway, which would further drive up costs.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Does anyone know when construction could start?

For me the more apt question is when will contruction be completed? Everything in this city seems to take ages to build. How long did the updates to Union Station (Concourse, platforms, bus terminal, etc) take? The Eglinton LRT construction started in 2011 and now has a (repeatedly postponed) opening planned for 2022. I’m fifty years old. I’d like to take the Ontario Line before I’m sixty. Can we do that?

 

[DirectionNorth]

For me the more apt question is when will contruction be completed? Everything in this city seems to take ages to build. How long did the updates to Union Station (Concourse, platforms, bus terminal, etc) take? The Eglinton LRT construction started in 2011 and now has a (repeatedly postponed) opening planned for 2022. I’m fifty years old. I’d like to take the Ontario Line before I’m sixty. Can we do that?

Do we have a genie lamp? I'm pessimistic.

Everything in this city takes ages to start to build as well.

The sooner construction starts, the less chance it gets cancelled by the new government after the election (if that happens), and the sooner it will be completed.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Kids that were in elementary school when the ECLRT was proposed now have graduated from college and maybe even started a family

 

[afransen]

Can we do that?

We (Toronto/Ontario) can't do that, it seems. The fact that it is eminently doable elsewhere notwithstanding.