[adma]

If this plan conforms to all of the Heritage Conservation District's rules including restrictions on materials, then there is no reason for the District to exist. This design makes a mockery of heritage architecture.

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I guess by "conforming to rules", it means it isn't one of those glassy H&M/American Apparel-style fronts.

For some reason, other than the loaded symbolism of the site, I still don't find myself as irrevocably offended as some are here--though it isn't like I don't welcome the incentive to do better, either...

 

[interchange42]

Here's what could have been done at Duke's: this building owned by JDT Group is nearing completion at 3077 Dundas St W at Quebec Av. in the Junction:

When JDT bought it a short while ago they simply wanted to add a third floor to it. Here's how it looked when Google Streetview passed by last year:

The building was in too rough a shape to simply add the third floor though, so it was taken down. Did JDT throw in the towel and go with precast or stucco and EIFS? Nope, with a plan by Ambient Design of College Street near Dufferin, the owners went with a design that preserves the materials and forms of the neighbourhood while adding a dash of the modern with black framed windows. Here are some closer looks at 3077 Dundas West:

A retail or restaurant tenant has not been found for the ground floor yet. The upper two floors will features two-storey residential rental units. If you are interested in the building, you can contact the realtor here.

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[Sir Novelty Fashion]

I'm in love, true love!

 

[adHominem]

But I loved The Handyman Shop. The new building's fine, but it lacks charm and I still get annoyed every time I walk past it.

 

[ponyboy]

It's nice, but seems like a lot of expense just to add a third floor. I wonder if the owner will get a good return on investment there. In the design, I might have traded the 3rd floor balconies in favor of larger rooms with big windows, and then built a large rooftop deck accessible to all. Heating costs are going to be high with all of those doors up there, and the balconies don't look very useful. Many tenants would prefer more interior space to the small balcony and a nice window that opens.

 

[urbandreamer]

People like that new Dundas@Quebec store front? That's what's wrong with Toronto--they accept crap!

Better solutions for this site, considering the silly 3s height limit:

1)How they do it in Montreal

2)How they do it in Toronto

 

[gristle]

Good examples urbandreamer. The trouble is that anyone expecting a reproduction of Dukes on Queen Street would probably reject these fine buildings as well.

 

[taal]

People like that new Dundas@Quebec store front? That's what's wrong with Toronto--they accept crap!

Well we accept you ... so you're probably on to something.

.. jk ..

I really don't see what you have against that example the building on dundas - personally I find it lacks a few details ... but it's far from crap.

 

[urbandreamer]

^They build better-looking 3s infill in small town Ontario! The dreary cheap-looking brown brick, the straight from Home Depot doors and Windows, the awkward front entrance vs the old curved glass window that stood there so grandly for a century.

The Junction is supposedly one of the hippest hoods in Canada--but that architectural junk doesn't "respect" that fact does it?

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'm very happy with the scale of the building, but yikes...the design. I agree with everyone who's baffled by the precast facade. What's wrong with brick? Or even that fake brick like on the Opera House. Also, is that a set back store entrance I see? It's hard to tell in that drawing. If so, what the hell are they thinking? Why would you set back your store entrance like that? It makes for a much less pleasant pedestrian environment and reduces the visibility of the store to boot.

That being said, many of the other buildings on Queen Street aren't all that attractive. It's more the uses that are important. Hopefully this will be decorated and personalized soon so that we will barely notice it within the greater fabric of the street.

If the city required the new building to have a setback, then in exchange they should allow an extra floor, with a better design of course.

 

[interchange42]

UD - I like both the Montreal and Toronto examples you linked to of modernist buildings, but that's not the only way to do it. What can you possibly find wrong with the truncated corner with the doors on it? What curved glass window are you talking about? The Handyman shop was also truncated with doors facing the corner. The colour of brick may not be to your liking - you find it dreary - but I find it rich; for me the tones are very engaging, and it's all set off well by the white mortar. I like the divided light windows, and I like the bold black frames, again set off well by the white mortar around them.

If you're going to do traditional vernacular buildings along stretches like this, this is the way to do it.

If you're going to do modern, your examples are both good.

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[TrickyRicky]

Hmmm. Interchange I appreciate the designers attempt in that Dundas/Quebec example but I'd have to say I do not find it superior to the Duke Cycle re-build. Infact, I think it is worse. At least the Duke Cycle re-build is simple and bland. A well designed and maintained retail frontage could raise it to the level of solid.

This says nothing about materials. I am one of the harshest critics of pre-cast and stucco. The stucco-ification of solid brick buildings on our commercial strips is one of the tragedies of design in contemporary Toronto. I don't know who decided that this is a good idea. Given the horrible legacy of this treatment in terms of durability why would a building owner opt for a stucco treatment of their facade?

As for the suggestion that the situation would be better if the whole area was under the same controlling interest...to that I just say whoa! I get the part about design hegemony but what a nightmare scenerio. That essentially is what we are getting in the new waterfront developments and I guarantee the entire 12 billion dollar district will have less charm than one short block of Queen Street, pre-cast facade or not.

 

[adma]

Hmmm. Interchange I appreciate the designers attempt in that Dundas/Quebec example but I'd have to say I do not find it superior to the Duke Cycle re-build. Infact, I think it is worse. At least the Duke Cycle re-build is simple and bland. A well designed and maintained retail frontage could raise it to the level of solid.

Above all, the critical thing here being that Dundas/Quebec is a teardown, without a catastrophic fire as an intermediary. As a result, it comes off as rather dubiously "tasteful"--the retail version of a so-called good-mannered McMansion.

Anti-Junction-Starbucks picketers couldn't have chosen a better address.

 

[junctionist]

At the Handyman Shop's replacement uses brick to at least attempt to tie it into the streetscape. It maintains the curve in the facade and has some decent details like the bay window. It's a handsome addition that will only be rejected by the "it must new modernist!" crowd to whom a grey wall with some randomly placed windows is deemed something that Victorian arterial infill should absolutely to aspire to be.

Interchange I appreciate the designers attempt in that Dundas/Quebec example but I'd have to say I do not find it superior to the Duke Cycle re-build. Infact, I think it is worse. At least the Duke Cycle re-build is simple and bland. A well designed and maintained retail frontage could raise it to the level of solid.

But the Duke's replacement uses what looks like the cheapest pieces of precast in the catalogue. How could it be worse? The precast facade will only draw attention its stark cheapness and lack of any details and more people will see it on Queen West downtown than on Dundas in the west-end.

 

[greenleaf]

UD - I like both the Montreal and Toronto examples you linked to of modernist buildings, but that's not the only way to do it. What can you possibly find wrong with the truncated corner with the doors on it? What curved glass window are you talking about? The Handyman shop was also truncated with doors facing the corner. The colour of brick may not be to your liking - you find it dreary - but I find it rich; for me the tones are very engaging, and it's all set off well by the white mortar. I like the divided light windows, and I like the bold black frames, again set off well by the white mortar around them.

If you're going to do traditional vernacular buildings along stretches like this, this is the way to do it.

If you're going to do modern, your examples are both good.

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+1

Well said interchange.