Steve X
Senior Member
Hey, Line 5 is both a subway and a streetcar!
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
ARG1
Senior Member
They're basically streetcars
T3G
Senior Member
In fairness, the distinction between "streetcar" and "light rail" is fairly dubious at best and seems to largely be a marketing scheme (because North Americans have been trained since the time of the GM conspiracy to view streetcars as slow and inefficient?) We willingly choose to handicap our streetcar system, but across the pond, you see a much bigger diversity of infrastructure all along the same tram lines, without pointless marketing to the public. One of my favourite examples is the line to the U.S. Steel Plant in Košice, Slovakia, where part of the trip is spent on conventional looking tracks:They're basically streetcars
While at its far reaches, it negotiates a grade separated right of way through the countryside to get to the plant.
Hell, in Pittsburgh they had lines out to the plants in the area that traversed landscapes and infrastructure not unlike this before they 86'ed their network.
nfitz
Superstar
Even now, Line 3 is branded as subway - always has been.
The same way the London Underground is more overground than underground. The London Tube has many trains and lines that aren't tubes (their tunnels are shallow and rectangular). And the London Overground has sections that are underground. Meanwhile the London Docklands Light Railway now has longer more frequent trains, and the capacity is now intermediate if not heavy - rather than being light.
I don't see any reason with branding Line 5, 6, and 7 as subway for consistency. In reality should all be called Metro - but that seems not worth the bother.
Steve X
Senior Member
So is the Broadway Subway in Vancouver not a subway cause they are SkyTrains? What about those elevated tracks on the New York subway?
Subway has been implied as rapid transit in Toronto since the opening of Line 1 in 1950s. Half the line doesn't even run underground and the trains were shorter, especially off peak. Originally the planned Queen "subway" were to operate with streetcars. So I don't know why some are making a fuss on this.
Subway has been implied as rapid transit in Toronto since the opening of Line 1 in 1950s. Half the line doesn't even run underground and the trains were shorter, especially off peak. Originally the planned Queen "subway" were to operate with streetcars. So I don't know why some are making a fuss on this.
T3G
Senior Member
TTC changing how it directs commuters on subway lines
The TTC is changing the signage used to direct commuters on its subway system.
DSC
Superstar
Maybe a good idea but the TTC might be better devoting resources to some kind of adequate route management first. Steve Munro's site is filled with route analysis showing how poor or non-existent that is.TTC changing how it directs commuters on subway lines
The TTC is changing the signage used to direct commuters on its subway system.toronto.ctvnews.ca
Northern Light
Superstar
TTC changing how it directs commuters on subway lines
The TTC is changing the signage used to direct commuters on its subway system.
Even sticking directly to issue of directions/mapping etc............
I feel the TTC is missing so many more important basics than worrying about the need to remove cardinal directions from signage, which I expect is actually an attempt to avoid pending bilingualization requirements and having to fit nord/sud/ouest/est on signs in addition to their English counterparts.
How about we start here. Every surface stop needs a route map and a real-time Next Bus screen that is accurate!
Then perhaps we might consider a simple interactive map at stations/major terminals that allowed someone to either type or say their destination and have the map light up w/the suggested route.
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That said, @DSC is entirely on point that there are far more important areas for the system to invest in, ranging from headway management, to service frequency, to adding washrooms to more subway stations.
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mistersg1
Active Member
Are you sure bilingualism is the reason, I mean the TTC is city property. For example, it’s quite some time ago but when the MTO transferred the portion of the QEW between Hwy 427 and Lake Shore, the City was quick to remove the French signs.
But anyways, what a stupid move by the TTC, hiding behind international standards regarding this is a mere cop out.
So if directions are to be eliminated completely and we must rely on control points, suppose I get off the subway at St Patrick, is the 505 Westbound streetcar, the signage will say it’s the Streetcar towards Dundas West station instead of “Streetcars Westbound” which is so much easier to understand.
This would be akin to having 400 series highways use control cities totally instead of directions, for example you are headed on 401 Kingston instead of 401 East, yes I know the QEW mostly doesn’t use directions and has this approach because of it’s weird shape. But still, what is so bad about basic cardinal directions?
But anyways, what a stupid move by the TTC, hiding behind international standards regarding this is a mere cop out.
So if directions are to be eliminated completely and we must rely on control points, suppose I get off the subway at St Patrick, is the 505 Westbound streetcar, the signage will say it’s the Streetcar towards Dundas West station instead of “Streetcars Westbound” which is so much easier to understand.
This would be akin to having 400 series highways use control cities totally instead of directions, for example you are headed on 401 Kingston instead of 401 East, yes I know the QEW mostly doesn’t use directions and has this approach because of it’s weird shape. But still, what is so bad about basic cardinal directions?
Steve X
Senior Member
I think it’s more confusing when people see the destination say Finch via Union and thinking that goes north.TTC changing how it directs commuters on subway lines
The TTC is changing the signage used to direct commuters on its subway system.
Northern Light
Superstar
The Crosstown and Finch West are not TTC property though, they are Metrolinx property, as the Ontario Line will be too; and the Yonge North extension.
Provincial law governs those the same way as GO transit and they will have to have bilingual signage. TTC Commissioners already suggested a need for harmonization.
Here's the motion from 2020:
https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2022/fa/bgrd/backgroundfile-225589.pdf
From the above:
JasonParis
Moderator
The new signage protocol reminds me of the subway roll signs of yore... "Wilson via Downtown." Or "Finch via Downtown." They've just switched "downtown" for "Union."
DSC
Superstar
Plus ca change and all that!
11th
Senior Member
I may be thinking in a loop here, but if they know "Finch" equates to going north, shouldn't they also know the opposite is true for "Union"? So going south, before going back north.
Also I am not sure how it's confusing for tourists. Let say they are at Museum station and going to Yorkdale. They look at the route map, which shows Vaughan and Finch as Line 1 termini. Yorkdale is in the direction towards Vaughan.
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Steve X
Senior Member
Most if not all people are not heading to Finch from Vaughan, Wilson, Eglinton West and etc. Why not display to "Union and Finch" or "Downtown and Finch" which makes much easier to understand as usually the first Name is more important.