[11th]

Most if not all people are not heading to Finch from Vaughan, Wilson, Eglinton West and etc. Why not display to "Union and Finch" or "Downtown and Finch" which makes much easier to understand as usually the first Name is more important.

Are we only suggesting people being unfamiliar with the "via" phrasing? "Via" points out the train will go towards Union before going to Finch.

 

[Steve X]

Are we only suggesting people being unfamiliar with the "via" phrasing? "Via" points out the train will go towards Union before going to Finch.

I'm suggesting if people were running for trains, they can read the first word and decide quickly. If you want to go south and see Finch, you'll have to pause a second, think and see "via Union" and realize that is south. It's not as straight forward.

 

[T3G]

Personally, this whole thing to me sounds like a solution in search of a problem. The only area where I can see some wayfinding needing upgrades was on the southbound portions of the YUS line. Maybe a good comproimse would've been having signs that say "Southbound & then northbound to Finch via Union". On the BD line, "Eastbound to Kennedy" seemed to me to be the best of both worlds. Not everyone knows their cardinal directions or terminal stations, so displaying the maximum amount of information would've been the most beneficial.

I'm reminded of when the TTC changed around all the letters of bus route branches in 2014. I'm not convinced those changes generated any value at all.

 

[mistersg1]

The theory involving bilingualism being the issue does make sense.

“Vaughan via Union” works because “via” is a bilingual word. Even though the whole thing doesn’t seem natural, having “Union and Finch” would create a bilingual headache as you’d need to say Union and/et Finch or something stupid.

This is the approach the MTO generally uses when one needs to take a collector highway to reach another highway.

401 EAST/EST via 409
QEW via 403

Personally I always thought the mind would understand it better if it was left to right, as in 409 to 401 East, or 403 to QEW, but this of course creates a problem.

This is just a totally unnecessary quagmire to appease a very small French speaking minority in the city. It gives the impression to anyone who’s a visitor that a French speaker should be able to walk into any restaurant and expect to be served in French, we all know that is not going to happen.

 

[Northern Light]

This is just a totally unnecessary quagmire to appease a very small French speaking minority in the city. It gives the impression to anyone who’s a visitor that a French speaker should be able to walk into any restaurant and expect to be served in French, we all know that is not going to happen.

Ummm, maybe not as small as you think.

There are about 300,000 francophones in Toronto; there are about 40,000 kids enrolled in French schools in the GTA (note, that does not include immersion, that is the French School Boards).

That's a sizable minority.

I would add there is some value in regards to national unity; and some value, I think in marketing Toronto as a cosmopolitan place the world; I can't tell you how many Americans I've heard comment that the visible presence
of French in Toronto is one of the biggest reminders to them they are in a foreign country.

They notice a great deal more if they stay awhile.......(Diversity, safety etc.) But its a very low-cost accommodation/marketing thing.

The key to me though is that we should be making the changes in signage simply as it comes due for replacement, meaning a very low accretive cost to add a word here or there or replace one with an icon.

I don't think there's any material disadvantage.

Just so long as we aren't replacing perfectly good signage prematurely, and so long as we're not making a complete muck-up of any changes.

 

[KevinT]

“Vaughan via Union” works because “via” is a bilingual word. Even though the whole thing doesn’t seem natural, having “Union and Finch” would create a bilingual headache as you’d need to say Union and/et Finch or something stupid.

Good observation, although a well place symbol could do wonders. "Union & Vaughan", or "Union→Vaughan" would do it.

 

[Jonny5]

I looked back and didn't see this shared here. Steve Munro published it on July 12.
This is a proposed routing for a 504A/506 when there is construction at both Church and Carlton, and King and Sumach.

This looks like something that come out of the second teleportation device in the movie "The Fly".
There is apparently a problem with turning at Yonge and College that has caused that peculiar jog to Wellesley (turning space for east to south at Young and College?), though other things about it seem wrong too. This route will be stuck in traffic and in long turning queues all over the place, especially with Carlton and Church closed, that whole area will be jammed.

EDIT: Also Parliament street will be a slog. The buses will be stuck with turning streetcars at multiple points which can take a long time to clear the intersections. Parliament is slow enough without them.

 

[DSC]

I looked back and didn't see this shared here. Steve Munro published it on July 12.
This is a proposed routing for a 504A/506 when there is construction at both Church and Carlton, and King and Sumach.

This looks like something that come out of the second teleportation device in the movie "The Fly".
There is apparently a problem with turning at Yonge and College that has caused that peculiar jog to Wellesley, though everything about it seems wrong. This route will be stuck in traffic and in long turning queues all over the place, especially with Carlton and Church closed, that whole area will be jammed.

This is to allow the TTC to rebuild (again!) the King & Sumach junction and (finally) replace the special trackwork @ Church & Carleton (without adding the extra curve they talked about several years ago.) Steve's piece is at: https://stevemunro.ca/2022/07/12/ttc-service-changes-july-31-2022/

 

[PL1]

Good observation, although a well place symbol could do wonders. "Union & Vaughan", or "Union→Vaughan" would do it.

Announced destinations (which I believe is required) need something other than an arrow. Via works.

 

[JasonParis]

Also I am not sure how it's confusing for tourists. Let say they are at Museum station and going to Yorkdale. They look at the route map, which shows Vaughan and Finch as Line 1 termini. Yorkdale is in the direction towards Vaughan.

I don't know why it should be confusing to tourists when it is the system used in most cities, NYC being a bit of an outlier. Tourists will get confused regardless, but knowing to always look for the terminus station (as I always do in Montreal) makes it quite easy. Also, very few cities has their main line allowing one to go south to get north in two directions (or vice-versa), so the cardinal direction signage starts to become silly in the same way that Yonge-Univesity-Spadina line did a decade back so was changed to Line 1. etc/

 

[ARG1]

I don't know why it should be confusing to tourists when it is the system used in most cities, NYC being a bit of an outlier. Tourists will get confused regardless, but knowing to always look for the terminus station (as I always do in Montreal) makes it quite easy. Also, very few cities has their main line allowing one to go south to get north in two directions (or vice-versa), so the cardinal direction signage starts to become silly in the same way that Yonge-Univesity-Spadina line did a decade back so was changed to Line 1. etc/

Because for the most part Toronto is a grid based city, and for the most part the subway does folllow the grid quite closely. Unlike other cities like Paris, London, Moscow, or NYC where subways go everywhere in all kinds of directions, Toronto is in a unique position where we can have directional signage and still have it make sense. I don't think this should be a case where we look at other cities and see how we can be like them, this is more of a situation where we see what benefits our existing system has, and see how we can take advantage of it.

 

[JasonParis]

But our subways increasingly don't follow cardinal directions.

 

[PL1]

I don't know why it should be confusing to tourists when it is the system used in most cities, NYC being a bit of an outlier. Tourists will get confused regardless, but knowing to always look for the terminus station (as I always do in Montreal) makes it quite easy. Also, very few cities has their main line allowing one to go south to get north in two directions (or vice-versa), so the cardinal direction signage starts to become silly in the same way that Yonge-Univesity-Spadina line did a decade back so was changed to Line 1. etc/

One confusing thing is, e.g. Boston, where they announce directions as "Inbound" or "Outbound", which as a tourist I didn't find intuitive at all. Announcing terminal stations is simple

 

[ARG1]

But our subways increasingly don't follow cardinal directions.

Can't say I agree. The only real example I can think of is maybe the SSE and OL, but those are a decade away, and when the time comes we can worry about them.

 

[Richard White]

Can't say I agree. The only real example I can think of is maybe the SSE and OL, but those are a decade away, and when the time comes we can worry about them.

Line 1 covers Yonge, Spadina, Allen, Keele, Bloor and goes really is only North-South from St George to Finch.

Line 3 goes north from Kennedy Station to Ellesmere and then straight eastwards.

Line 2 actually turns north at Victoria Park and South just past Islington.