Developer: Metrolinx
  
Address: Hurontario Street, Mississauga, Canada
Category: Transit
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Then definitely what will get built then :|
Since the city is tearing their downtown as well removing the old channel system, the idea is to remove the TBM sideway into the area next to it exit point that will be dug up anyway for the removal of the existing buildings been torn down and the removal of the bury channel.
 
Would you please like to make a commentary on the rest of the suburbs cities around Toronto. How is Oakville doing? Ajax? Pickering? Whitby? Markham? Vaughan? Brampton?

I’d also like to note that once we go north of Eglinton within Toronto we basically have the same unsustainable build form. Also Toronto may have built well when cars were sparse and the street car suburbs was their goals. But after that there was a whole bunch of suburban like planning see again north of Eglinton. In fact just before 2000 there was very very few condos downtown Toronto. Instead there was a whole bunch of parking lots. Stretch back to the blue jays World Series win and my goodness there is barely anything west of university. So it’s only the last few decades where Toronto boomed in a city like fashion.

I’d also like to note that part of the reason there is so much office development these days closer to union is because of you guessed it, those pesky suburb people.


Toronto 1834
Calgary 1894 Mississauga 1974

Density
Toronto 4,427.8/km2
Calgary 1,592.4/km2
Mississauga 2,467.60/km2

Anyways I think you should give Mississauga a few more years before you judge it fully. Can we at least see the difference a LRT make and all day cooksville Go. And MCC will grow once the world starts building again.
Thank you for pointing out that Calgary is an incredibly sprawled city.
 
Mississauga could have turned the old towns or villages like Cooksville in their downtown, but instead they tore down most of the old street facing stores into parking lots. Streetsville still has street facing stores, but the outskirts have parking lots. Both had and now have railway stations.
 
Mississauga could have turned the old towns or villages like Cooksville in their downtown, but instead they tore down most of the old street facing stores into parking lots. Streetsville still has street facing stores, but the outskirts have parking lots. Both had and now have railway stations.
I agree. Mississauga has a rough past. But currently the MCC plans are a vast improvement. If port credit ever lets serious development then that’s a second walkable area. Anyways I choose to focus on the positives.
 
Cut and cover or (God forbid) TBM ?

It's not that long a drive, a TBM for that short a drive and the added station depth would cost a fortune.

I can get behind the tunnelled solution, but let's stay realistic.

- Paul

Cut and cover for the tunnel entrance, partial for Nanwood, and TBM the rest of the way. Two if they somehow explain how they're going to get another one on the opposite side.

One thing they don't really show much is any station concepts. Underground stations could mean anything from a straight down to the track à la Queens Quay, to something more grandiose with mezzanines, fare gates, etc.

From what I understand, the underground station design still has to be done. In the documented I provided earlier, it showed the station design below downtown Brampton GO with one LRV on each side, so it has be thinking it'd be something similar to the subway lines you see in Toronto.

Cut and cover........never will happen and look at how Brampton wants to remove the TBM with out a hole to do so.. The tunneling is a waste of $2 billion and only buying votes and seats

Cut and cover isn't for the entirety of the route, just for the tunnel entrance with partial on Nanwood. Any option provided for the Brampton extension at this point would be a waste of money because only Mississauga received funding for their portion. The Mississauga Loop was in the initial design, then removed, then added again as part of phase two. One could argue that the loop was re-added to buy votes and seats as well. Whether or not you agree with it, Mississauga has to contend with the same issues that Brampton does when it comes to getting things done by the current government. But that's neither here nor there for discussion.

I understand the attitude that any transit is good transit, but tunneling this line into downtown Brampton is a tremendous waste of taxpayer money. Any number of alternatives (median on Main or Kennedy and then the rail corridor) could have delivered the same service for a fraction of the cost and construction time. This is a continued manifestation of the provincial government's usage of transit construction as a political & developer benefits scheme, and a further nail in the coffin of transportation planning as a career within Ontario. Napkin drawings and election promises have choked Ontario’s transportation development for decades and now continue to ensure that the outcome for the taxpayer is always lesser transit for more cost.

We will sterilize two rails on the only rail corridor Eastbound out of downtown to cut costs and avoid a tunnel, and then spend that money on appeasing Brampton’s wants (I don’t support any NIMBY-ism in Leslieville, but the usage of the corridor may prove more expensive in the long run). Scarborough doesn’t get a tunnel on Eglinton; Etobicoke does. Underground stations at Royal Orchard; but no station at Cherry. Mississauga gets a glorified streetcar; Brampton gets a tunnel.

Additionally, what message does this send to the municipalities? Vote down proposed transit with shared costs, be obstructionist in what gets built and permitted, and then get rewarded with a provincially funded two-billion-dollar tunnel for your shitty “Downtown” that is of equal size and lesser heritage than Square One Mall.

At some point, one begins to believe that this extension is devised purely to show off the fact that the province can indeed come up with a worse way of spending money than 200 dollars in the mail.
Median on Main or diversion to Kennedy were already discussed nearly over a decade ago. When the initial conversation about having a LRT in Brampton was announced, there were NIMBY's who lived right along the Main Street corridor who opposed the idea of it strongly. So strongly that you had factions in Brampton City Hall who were vetoing ever building it along Main Street in support of those NIMBY's, and instead suggesting Kennedy Road. McLaughlin, diversions along other inner streets, and other routes that I don't even remember anymore. Not to mention, diverting along those routes does nothing to solve the influx of people coming off the GO train, Go Bus, or arriving by bus to downtown Brampton.

They suggested these routes because they didn't want to lose their long driveway ROW, and were more concerned about their property values than they were about ever using it as a service. They thought that the sight of an above ground LRT was absolutely heinous, and would cause traffic disruptions and so on. This stalled the development in Brampton, and it only recently started back up once the vetoing faction was voted out. None of their suggestions had anything to do with ever running the LRT into downtown Brampton.

Whether or not you agree with the line being done the way it is, comparing Brampton's downtown to Mississauga's City Centre without focusing on the stops in between, or additional variables means you're focusing on only one section of the entirety of the HMLRT. The 502 that travels on Main starts from Hurontario / Sandalwood, makes a few stops before hitting Downtown Brampton, makes a few stops before hitting Gateway Terminal, and then a few stops in Mississauga before hitting Square One. By one point, the bus is already full, and some stops have been skipped because of how full the bus is, and how many people are not getting off because they're all trying to go to Square One. Combine this with the fact that it's rush hour, Main/Theatre, Main/Queen, Main/Welington are completely backed up. People are waiting for a bus to come because the other buses are full. The bus takes longer than the scheduled time because of gridlock.

The tunnel for the LRT will reallocate resources from Brampton Transit's 502 to the incoming 504, and eventually the currently being planned 515, while also ensuring that everyone is able to get on, and be moved around the city to where they need to get to.

Also... I'd like to know what historical significance a shopping mall has when we're talking about moving a significant number of people via different transit solutions between one city to another city. Heritage is one thing, but to suggest that a city must have heritage in order to benefit from something is a little.... Strange to me I suppose.
 
Cut and cover for the tunnel entrance, partial for Nanwood, and TBM the rest of the way. Two if they somehow explain how they're going to get another one on the opposite side.



From what I understand, the underground station design still has to be done. In the documented I provided earlier, it showed the station design below downtown Brampton GO with one LRV on each side, so it has be thinking it'd be something similar to the subway lines you see in Toronto.



Cut and cover isn't for the entirety of the route, just for the tunnel entrance with partial on Nanwood. Any option provided for the Brampton extension at this point would be a waste of money because only Mississauga received funding for their portion. The Mississauga Loop was in the initial design, then removed, then added again as part of phase two. One could argue that the loop was re-added to buy votes and seats as well. Whether or not you agree with it, Mississauga has to contend with the same issues that Brampton does when it comes to getting things done by the current government. But that's neither here nor there for discussion.


Median on Main or diversion to Kennedy were already discussed nearly over a decade ago. When the initial conversation about having a LRT in Brampton was announced, there were NIMBY's who lived right along the Main Street corridor who opposed the idea of it strongly. So strongly that you had factions in Brampton City Hall who were vetoing ever building it along Main Street in support of those NIMBY's, and instead suggesting Kennedy Road. McLaughlin, diversions along other inner streets, and other routes that I don't even remember anymore. Not to mention, diverting along those routes does nothing to solve the influx of people coming off the GO train, Go Bus, or arriving by bus to downtown Brampton.

They suggested these routes because they didn't want to lose their long driveway ROW, and were more concerned about their property values than they were about ever using it as a service. They thought that the sight of an above ground LRT was absolutely heinous, and would cause traffic disruptions and so on. This stalled the development in Brampton, and it only recently started back up once the vetoing faction was voted out. None of their suggestions had anything to do with ever running the LRT into downtown Brampton.

Whether or not you agree with the line being done the way it is, comparing Brampton's downtown to Mississauga's City Centre without focusing on the stops in between, or additional variables means you're focusing on only one section of the entirety of the HMLRT. The 502 that travels on Main starts from Hurontario / Sandalwood, makes a few stops before hitting Downtown Brampton, makes a few stops before hitting Gateway Terminal, and then a few stops in Mississauga before hitting Square One. By one point, the bus is already full, and some stops have been skipped because of how full the bus is, and how many people are not getting off because they're all trying to go to Square One. Combine this with the fact that it's rush hour, Main/Theatre, Main/Queen, Main/Welington are completely backed up. People are waiting for a bus to come because the other buses are full. The bus takes longer than the scheduled time because of gridlock.

The tunnel for the LRT will reallocate resources from Brampton Transit's 502 to the incoming 504, and eventually the currently being planned 515, while also ensuring that everyone is able to get on, and be moved around the city to where they need to get to.

Also... I'd like to know what historical significance a shopping mall has when we're talking about moving a significant number of people via different transit solutions between one city to another city. Heritage is one thing, but to suggest that a city must have heritage in order to benefit from something is a little.... Strange to me I suppose.
Based on what I been told, TBM northbound only and you can do a single tunnel for the 2 tracks. The City doesn't want a hole in the ground to put in or remove the TBM on Main St. The station will have to be mine.

The Loop is a City Thing and not really supported by most people due to the extra travel time as well splitting the line into 2 lines and requiring transferring from one line to another that will add more time like today route. 2 and 17. Not going to buy votes or seats.

Bill Davis play a huge part in getting the tunnel built as well most of the residents on Main St, but mainly council. If ML had the finally say on how the line was to be built in place of Ford, it would have been on the surface since they never supported the tunnel option at all. With Ford wanting roads for cars and hate streetcars/LRT/Bikes, he put the line underground.

As you noted, the 502 can be full that you can't get on one and have to wait for the next or two buses to get on. Peak point is Gateway and CCTT for ridership as well Derry and lack info for north of the GO station that can be a peak point at times.. This alone will require a better headway north of CCTT than south of it causing a longer travel time to bypass CCTT in the first place. If and when the Milton Line gets AD2W, drivers to the GO station will take the car than use the LRT if the line is split, but more incline to use it if it bypass the CCTT all together.

As for the Steeles Station, someone needs to make a decision by Q2 this year about moving it to the north side from it plan location as there is a push this year to get all the guideway built along with tracks and overhead so there will be less work in 2026 to allow the line to open by year end or early 2027. They are doing John St to Dundas now and to be follow by Queensway to the North Service Rd by Spring. It will be follow by the QEW area. The section from the QEW to PC is subject as to when hydro has remove and relocate existing hydro poles as well the ones in the southbound turning lane at the North Service Rd.
 
The difference is that Oakville, Ajax, Pickering, Whitby, Markham, Vaughan and yes….even Brampton….don’t go around pretending that they’re not a suburb of Toronto. Those places know what they are and they realize their population and economic activity are directly tied to Toronto. They view themselves as one.

I recall about a decade ago about Mississauga making a huge deal out of Pearson being named Toronto Pearson instead of Mississauga Pearson. Some seem convinced that the growth of Mississauga has been separate from Toronto. It’s even emphasized on their Wikipedia page lol.

So if Mississauga wants to view itself as a “real city” then it needs to start acting like one. I’ve always found it so cringe how this overblown suburb continuously runs with this “we’re our own city” narrative. Like get a grip already.

I'm a resident of Mississauga and I think that kind of Mississauga chauvinism is absurd. Anyone who thinks it is not a suburb is delusional. It is also a major economic centre in its own right, particularly around the airport and the 401 corridor.

Mississauga made a lot of mistakes in its suburban development by the standards of today, but I'm not sure it is worse than most other municipalities. Even Toronto's development during similar time frame is not stellar.
 
One can hope that this inane plan is just an election ploy that will be stalled for the duration of the next term and shelved.
 
Based on what I been told, TBM northbound only and you can do a single tunnel for the 2 tracks. The City doesn't want a hole in the ground to put in or remove the TBM on Main St. The station will have to be mine.

The Loop is a City Thing and not really supported by most people due to the extra travel time as well splitting the line into 2 lines and requiring transferring from one line to another that will add more time like today route. 2 and 17. Not going to buy votes or seats.

Bill Davis play a huge part in getting the tunnel built as well most of the residents on Main St, but mainly council. If ML had the finally say on how the line was to be built in place of Ford, it would have been on the surface since they never supported the tunnel option at all. With Ford wanting roads for cars and hate streetcars/LRT/Bikes, he put the line underground.

As you noted, the 502 can be full that you can't get on one and have to wait for the next or two buses to get on. Peak point is Gateway and CCTT for ridership as well Derry and lack info for north of the GO station that can be a peak point at times.. This alone will require a better headway north of CCTT than south of it causing a longer travel time to bypass CCTT in the first place. If and when the Milton Line gets AD2W, drivers to the GO station will take the car than use the LRT if the line is split, but more incline to use it if it bypass the CCTT all together.

As for the Steeles Station, someone needs to make a decision by Q2 this year about moving it to the north side from it plan location as there is a push this year to get all the guideway built along with tracks and overhead so there will be less work in 2026 to allow the line to open by year end or early 2027. They are doing John St to Dundas now and to be follow by Queensway to the North Service Rd by Spring. It will be follow by the QEW area. The section from the QEW to PC is subject as to when hydro has remove and relocate existing hydro poles as well the ones in the southbound turning lane at the North Service Rd.

If they are going to do a single bore tunnel like that, and only in a single direction, wouldn't a mined tunnel using road headers like the way Ottawa's was built a better choice instead of using a very large TBM they would need to disassemble at the end?
 
Based on what I been told, TBM northbound only and you can do a single tunnel for the 2 tracks. The City doesn't want a hole in the ground to put in or remove the TBM on Main St. The station will have to be mine.

The Loop is a City Thing and not really supported by most people due to the extra travel time as well splitting the line into 2 lines and requiring transferring from one line to another that will add more time like today route. 2 and 17. Not going to buy votes or seats.

Bill Davis play a huge part in getting the tunnel built as well most of the residents on Main St, but mainly council. If ML had the finally say on how the line was to be built in place of Ford, it would have been on the surface since they never supported the tunnel option at all. With Ford wanting roads for cars and hate streetcars/LRT/Bikes, he put the line underground.

As you noted, the 502 can be full that you can't get on one and have to wait for the next or two buses to get on. Peak point is Gateway and CCTT for ridership as well Derry and lack info for north of the GO station that can be a peak point at times.. This alone will require a better headway north of CCTT than south of it causing a longer travel time to bypass CCTT in the first place. If and when the Milton Line gets AD2W, drivers to the GO station will take the car than use the LRT if the line is split, but more incline to use it if it bypass the CCTT all together.

As for the Steeles Station, someone needs to make a decision by Q2 this year about moving it to the north side from it plan location as there is a push this year to get all the guideway built along with tracks and overhead so there will be less work in 2026 to allow the line to open by year end or early 2027. They are doing John St to Dundas now and to be follow by Queensway to the North Service Rd by Spring. It will be follow by the QEW area. The section from the QEW to PC is subject as to when hydro has remove and relocate existing hydro poles as well the ones in the southbound turning lane at the North Service Rd.
Remind me again why certain trains could not bypass the loop. That would give the people around MCC the easiest access to the LRT which they need to connect to the GO while at the same time not impeding others who have no need for the scenic route around city centre?

Is it just not in the plans or is it actually not doable.
 
Based on what I been told, TBM northbound only and you can do a single tunnel for the 2 tracks. The City doesn't want a hole in the ground to put in or remove the TBM on Main St. The station will have to be mine.

The biggest cost of a TBM is inserting and removing it, the incremental per km cost is more reasonable. Even if we can't afford an extra station, I would just bore an extra km to the north to where an extraction shaft is more practical. Consider the unused tunnel just futureproofing until we can afford to extend.

I really wonder why we aren't learning from other projects. Cut and cover is probably cheaper and less intrusive given that the tunnel runs directly under a main business alley that needs the shortest possible disruption. Why are we so eager to replicate the misery of the Eglinton experience ?

- Paul
 

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