[drum118]

I love it when it’s bad news, everyone reverts to calling it the Hurontario Line

It is the Hurontario Line to me and others as well Line 10 in place of the name for Hazel Line. Talking to folk along the corridor they refer the line as the LRT/Streetcar line in most cases. Like most reporters they are asking the wrong questions as it should be why, what , who, is there a plan in place to deal with the problems and when will those problems be fix??

The earliest I see this line in service is late 2027 to 2030 depending on a number of things, You got 6 months of work to put a wye in for Burnhamthorpe, Topflight will not be completed until September or October.

The main question is why was all the encased tracks for the OMSF guideway built in 2024 completely torn up as well Topflight and will this happen to all the trackwork on Hurontario St that is encased in concrete or sitting on a concrete base?? If Hurontario is to see the same work, expect to add an extra 2-3 years to the completion dated

Plans for 2025 was to finish all the trackwork from Topflight to Eglinton as well string the OS system starting in April so that area be ready to start testing the new fleet when Topflight work was completed in July or August. There we are 2.3rd through August and nothing has taken place for any of the Hurontario work. King St intersection was to see tracks place across the intersection in May follow by Dundas and that hasn't happen due to work on Dundas for duct banks and other work with late September or October timeframe now. The BIA are planning for an event on Dundas in September like last year and are very concerned if the work will be done before the event is to happen including the ward councilor. Hydro was to start removing poles south of the QEW and hasn't happen so the guideway can be built. Was told in 2024 by an hydro inspector that hydro work was to start in 2026 and be completed fully for the corridor by the end of 2027

With all the delays and longer completion time, time to move Steeles Station to the north side where is was to be in the first place and ML getting off the pot to allow it to happen.

With ML going before Mississauga Council this fall, you will hear no timeframe or any date when things will happen or be completed for the line and the loop. The line will see service once it is ready and all testing has taken place will be ML comment for date and timeframe.

 

[JJTheJetPln]

I get that it's critical that work is done properly so the rail is safe to operate on, but holy cow are the screw-ups crazy if that's what they are.

 

[Mercury]

Can't afford to do it right, but can afford to do it twice.

 

[Dan416]

I don’t understand why the Finch LRT is nearly done and Hurontario is soooo far behind when they started around the same time. The lack of visible progress this year is concerning. They made a lot of visible progress last year compared to this year where they’re doing very little and just redoing things “done” before.

Crazy that construction started 5 years ago and still no idea when it’ll open.

 

[drum118]

I don’t understand why the Finch LRT is nearly done and Hurontario is soooo far behind when they started around the same time. The lack of visible progress this year is concerning. They made a lot of visible progress last year compared to this year where they’re doing very little and just redoing things “done” before.

Crazy that construction started 5 years ago and still no idea when it’ll open.

Finch ROW has been finished over a year with some rework being done to allow the line to be tested and training crews for the line. Road and sidewalk work is not 100% complete with work still to be done for the CP underpass. Then you have the legal issues still on going. Based on the Eglinton mess, the line may open at the end of 2025 or early 2026 now and only after the Eglinton line opens.

Finch used the Netherlands style of rails with supports and Hurontario is using the Portuguese style similar to what I saw in Germany for two projects. I was unable to see how the rails were installed as it was done under tent conditions. Both the Portuguese and Germany style use a rebar tie with a concrete block area for the rail support clips as well a hole to level the tie before being encased in concrete. All the ties are built in a form and if that form is off my a few mm, there is your cause for the current track work. The other area that could be an issue is the rails themselves and are they NA rails or Europe rail as the head profile are slightly different between them from what I have been able to find.

Don't forget Mobilinx credit rating was lower last year as well place on credit rate watch that is most likely causing a higher rate to borrow money to build the line than plan for back in 2019, BOTT was removed form the corridor work either the end of 2024 or early 2025 and assign to small projects work that you very rarely see them around or part of Amico crew who is doing the heavy work now. Both companies have a core of personnel and hire other workers as needed from the various union halls.

The trackwork taking place now is a major concern to me and if it happens to the rails in place on Hurontario, we will be looking at least another 2-3 years delay to fix it and why no trackwork has taken place this year so far. the other major issue is the lack of 100% complete engineering detail drawings in place of the 80% that was hitting the street to start doing work with reworked taking place after 100% drawings show up and why there been a lot or surveying taking place along the corridor more than once in many locations.

 

[Dan416]

The lack of laying down new tracks is what frustrates me the most. Like they laid this concrete in the centre of Hurontario ages ago, and still no tracks are laid. I’m talking specifically about the Elm to Cooksville GO section as that’s where I am walking to work. I never expected it to take so long from one stage to the next.

 

[sixrings]

The lack of laying down new tracks is what frustrates me the most. Like they laid this concrete in the centre of Hurontario ages ago, and still no tracks are laid. I’m talking specifically about the Elm to Cooksville GO section as that’s where I am walking to work. I never expected it to take so long from one stage to the next.

What frustrates me is all these lrt lines being over budget and delayed is the fact that I think it will hinder any future new lines or expansions. As for Mississauga I think more and more dundas not being an lrt was a mistake and converting it likely will cost too much and take too long.

 

[Anastasia]

What frustrates me is all these lrt lines being over budget and delayed is the fact that I think it will hinder any future new lines or expansions. As for Mississauga I think more and more dundas not being an lrt was a mistake and converting it likely will cost too much and take too long.

I sympathize with your frustrations. On the other hand, the BRT on Dundas will likely be completed before the Hurontario LRT is up and running!

 

[sixrings]

Sadly I am quite confident that if there is a way it will be found to mess up even the simplest of projects.

 

[ARG1]

Don't forget Mobilinx credit rating was lower last year as well place on credit rate watch that is most likely causing a higher rate to borrow money to build the line than plan for back in 2019, BOTT was removed form the corridor work either the end of 2024 or early 2025 and assign to small projects work that you very rarely see them around or part of Amico crew who is doing the heavy work now. Both companies have a core of personnel and hire other workers as needed from the various union halls.

Woah, what's the story behind the credit rating? Is this an industry wide thing or did Mobilinx mess up somehow?

 

[JJTheJetPln]

Woah, what's the story behind the credit rating? Is this an industry wide thing or did Mobilinx mess up somehow?

Hurontario LRT track trouble and delays threaten credit rating, completion timeline

More specifically:

Mobilinx has faced legal challenges in both Toronto and Brampton over the alleged failure to return equipment, pay rental fees and square up a $2.7-million bill with another subcontractor.

Meanwhile, a new report from S&P Global Ratings pointed to “newly reported delays” in construction that could jeopardize Mobilinx’s ability to pay off its creditors — forcing provincial transit agency Metrolinx to consider a “global settlement.”

 

[ownthesky]

What frustrates me is all these lrt lines being over budget and delayed is the fact that I think it will hinder any future new lines or expansions. As for Mississauga I think more and more dundas not being an lrt was a mistake and converting it likely will cost too much and take too long.

The one big upside to the BRT scheme I've thought is that it plays nicely with the 5 municipal jurisdictions that runs through it. The service model isn't hammered out yet obviously, but you could theoretically run a GO bus along the whole thing alongside parallel city buses like the Mississauga Transitway. This would be a bit more complicated with a tram.

 

[drum118]

Sadly I am quite confident that if there is a way it will be found to mess up even the simplest of projects.

The one big upside to the BRT scheme I've thought is that it plays nicely with the 5 municipal jurisdictions that runs through it. The service model isn't hammered out yet obviously, but you could theoretically run a GO bus along the whole thing alongside parallel city buses like the Mississauga Transitway. This would be a bit more complicated with a tram.

That has been the thinking since 2007 using the London UK model.

The Dundas LRT only works for a small section of the plan BRT in Mississauga with the main issue for the LRT is in Toronto as well lack of density for the whole corridor. Even though I call for the Dundas LRT back in 2003/5 as part of 5/7 LRT lines in Mississauga, there is no real density along the whole plan routes to support a true BRT or LRT for at least 30-40 years. This includes what I saw for LRT routes. With Derry the next RT line to be built and building a true BRT ROW that will service the current 10,000 daily riders to about 30,000 come 2050 is overkill

Has anyone ridden any of Mississauga express routes lately and if so, I hope you enjoy the Sunday driving by the drivers. 15-30 km under the speed limit is not an express bus. Locals are averaging 20 km with limit stopping and lack of traffic.

We saw during the Hurontario EA the option of an LRT on Dundas to Kipling and it was killed by Hydro One for the Kipling Station and Toronto not real interested in having RT on Dundas that will service areas outside of it.

If one looks closely to what exist today for Dundas for all Municipalities as well 500 meters on both sides of it, density is missing today. There are plans for density on it in Toronto that would support line 2 extension to Cloverdale with about 10 development sites In Mississauga. Halton has some development to try to match Oakville vision of an BRT by 2020, but far away currently to get there.

Having a true BRT from Etobicoke Creek to Confederation is overkill currently and most likely by 2050. If one looks at Sheppard East before Transit City was proposed and today, only a few sites have been built since then that will support an express line. Sheppard has more legs to be a True BRT let along an LRT, but the push is for a subway. The Sheppard LRT was to be up and running by 2014 with very little development.

Not knowing the real issues for the current trackwork rework taking place, it is hard for me to say which options will solve the current issues, but any of the 3/4 options will be expensive to do it as well having the budget blown out of the water and years late opening the line.

Who pocket is the cost to do the rework coming out now as it shouldn't be the province or the taxpayers??

 

[sixrings]

That has been the thinking since 2007 using the London UK model.

The Dundas LRT only works for a small section of the plan BRT in Mississauga with the main issue for the LRT is in Toronto as well lack of density for the whole corridor. Even though I call for the Dundas LRT back in 2003/5 as part of 5/7 LRT lines in Mississauga, there is no real density along the whole plan routes to support a true BRT or LRT for at least 30-40 years. This includes what I saw for LRT routes. With Derry the next RT line to be built and building a true BRT ROW that will service the current 10,000 daily riders to about 30,000 come 2050 is overkill

Has anyone ridden any of Mississauga express routes lately and if so, I hope you enjoy the Sunday driving by the drivers. 15-30 km under the speed limit is not an express bus. Locals are averaging 20 km with limit stopping and lack of traffic.

We saw during the Hurontario EA the option of an LRT on Dundas to Kipling and it was killed by Hydro One for the Kipling Station and Toronto not real interested in having RT on Dundas that will service areas outside of it.

If one looks closely to what exist today for Dundas for all Municipalities as well 500 meters on both sides of it, density is missing today. There are plans for density on it in Toronto that would support line 2 extension to Cloverdale with about 10 development sites In Mississauga. Halton has some development to try to match Oakville vision of an BRT by 2020, but far away currently to get there.

Having a true BRT from Etobicoke Creek to Confederation is overkill currently and most likely by 2050. If one looks at Sheppard East before Transit City was proposed and today, only a few sites have been built since then that will support an express line. Sheppard has more legs to be a True BRT let along an LRT, but the push is for a subway. The Sheppard LRT was to be up and running by 2014 with very little development.

Not knowing the real issues for the current trackwork rework taking place, it is hard for me to say which options will solve the current issues, but any of the 3/4 options will be expensive to do it as well having the budget blown out of the water and years late opening the line.

Who pocket is the cost to do the rework coming out now as it shouldn't be the province or the taxpayers??

Dundas of Oakville didn’t have a negative connotation that dundas of Mississauga has which makes it a harder sell to buyers. That said Mississauga hasn’t helped the case by basically allowing anything to be built at square one while finding ways to oppose other sites like that at port credit or dundas. There is no reason that all of dundas and Dixie couldn’t be fully bulldozed and condos built like what’s happening at cloverdale. A go station is there and somehow it’s surrounded by Walmarts and strip plazas versus condos. It doesn’t make sense.

 

[SR95]

Dundas of Oakville didn’t have a negative connotation that dundas of Mississauga has which makes it a harder sell to buyers. That said Mississauga hasn’t helped the case by basically allowing anything to be built at square one while finding ways to oppose other sites like that at port credit or dundas. There is no reason that all of dundas and Dixie couldn’t be fully bulldozed and condos built like what’s happening at cloverdale. A go station is there and somehow it’s surrounded by Walmarts and strip plazas versus condos. It doesn’t make sense.

From talking to planners at Mississauga, they don't view the Milton line in its current state as a catalyst for development. They don't want to build communities along Milton stations until it gets 2WAD service. They're firmly in the camp of transit needs to be in place first before you build (nevermind the fact that Port Credit and Clarkson barely have any until very recently...).

It doesn't make sense to me why you wouldn't start planning for the future by letting development happen now, considering it takes years or even decades for that density to materialize, but that kind of thinking seems to be pretty prevalent unfortunately.

And for the record I agree with you completely. I would say the same about the rest of the Milton line stations in Mississauga, especially Streetsville.