Kosy123
Senior Member
I mean it does for the most part, I've had very little issues with it even when its -25 and a blizzard, until the last two months.
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Friendmonton
Active Member
I think people need to be a tad more reasonable in this situation. We’ve had a challenging few weeks of heavy snow, blowing snow and rapid freezes. It won’t be magically fixed in a day.
EdwardEdm
Active Member
Trains are running today. I assume it was regular service, although I can't be 100% sure. I did see a train that was seemingly on schedule when I stepped out of my house to look, and I have watched them on the 75 St/ Whitemud Drive traffic camera. Of course, there is a chance these were out of service trains for some reason. Although, I didn't see any buses on 75th St which would have been LRT replacement if the trains weren't in service.. ETS/ TransEd have remarkably bad incident communication, so although the VLSE was seemingly down all day yesterday, there was no update that everything was back up and running today.
While this image predates this most recent dump of snow, and the photo doesn't really convey what it looked like in person, there was a remarkable amount of snow around the tracks but trains were fine.
To the best of my knowledge, the big problems have been issues with the crossovers. I feel part of the problem is that the City specified embedded track in the first place, but then I am curious if TransEd choose the best options from all possible vendors for the turnouts that are embedded. London Trackwork supplied the special trackwork for the VLSE. Certainly, having open trackwork at the just the crossovers would have simplified things. Indeed, on the NLRT Blatchford Extension, all of the rails are embedded except at the crossovers, so seemingly ETS/ The City didn't want embedded crossovers. Although I haven't seen that crossover in person yet, I can see from satellite images that it certainly has a standard looking blower to help keep the switch points and general area snow free, and likely has a standard switch machine.
I do think TransED has cheaped out on snow removal equipment, although I don't know exactly what they have either. At this point I haven't seen anything that would seem to indicate they have equipment like the Cameleon flangeway cleaners, or RPM Tech blower trucks like ETS has. I have seen a light duty utility vehicle with hi-rail wheels being used to clear trackwork, and a friend has seen a hi-rail skid steer. Both have rotary booms. Really disappointed the day I got stuck at Strathearn because of switch problems Downtown and then seeing TransEd hadn't cleared out Quarters crossovers yet.
The Project Agreement includes a section on developing a Winter Maintenance Strategy, so either TransEd is unable to follow through on this strategy, or the City signed off on a sub-par strategy.
And just before I made this post I checked the 2022 LRT Design Guidelines:
"Embedded turnouts and crossovers are not permitted on Mainline track. In sections of embedded Mainline track, turnouts and crossovers should be designed as slab mount direct fixation track with elastomeric grout pads, although direct fixation on concrete plinths may be permitted."
degrandprix
Active Member
Service was down today between Davies and 102 St. I saw crews working on the tracks near the Quarters stop. They were also clearing the snow at Muttart station, so maybe it will be back up soon?
Gronk!
Senior Member
Barnaby
Senior Member
I don't expect TransEd to be operating the line for much longer.
Avenuer
Senior Member
You think the City coudl somehow terminate the P3 agreement? Who would take it over then, the City? And be on the hook for the years of operating costs ahead?
Yegpeople
New Member
There is no other option city is locked in 30 year operating agreement with transed and also city is negotiating west line operations with them now
J_gordo
Active Member
I don’t get why transed would want to leave the operating agreement as they are finally starting to recoup the costs of construction. And I don’t see why the city would want them removed due to the administrative costs of finding a new operating partner and removing transed.
CplKlinger
Senior Member
IIRC if TransEd were removed as operator, they would need to be paid out the balance of their contract.
whattheheck
Active Member
Maybe, and hear me out now, the weather related delays are not the fault of TransEd, but instead the result of a bad move by city hall in choosing a low floor slow moving tram for mass transit operations in a city with severe winter weather conditions.
The high floor system does not see such issues. The trains move faster, the momentum which then pushes the snow out of the way. A slow floor system does not have that momentum.
And don't go 'but but but in Europe they have low floor'. Sorry, no comparison. We endure cold CANADIAN prairie conditions. Our winters are distinctly different from northern Europe. (Of course most of the city boosters on this forum will roll your eyes at my comment. But, I am right.)
The high floor system does not see such issues. The trains move faster, the momentum which then pushes the snow out of the way. A slow floor system does not have that momentum.
And don't go 'but but but in Europe they have low floor'. Sorry, no comparison. We endure cold CANADIAN prairie conditions. Our winters are distinctly different from northern Europe. (Of course most of the city boosters on this forum will roll your eyes at my comment. But, I am right.)
JuliallThat
Active Member
If you wanted a more fair comparison they have an extensive tram system in Moscow, but I don't know anything about their routing or operations. Would be worth digging into to see what they do differently though.
EdwardEdm
Active Member
Sorry, this is just a bit nitpicky on my behalf. Would by TransEd not operating it also mean TransEd is longer maintaining it as well?
degrandprix
Active Member
I think its more likely that the high-floor system, which has been in operation for 48 years, has all the bugs worked out already vs the low floor which has been only operating for 2 years.
EdwardEdm
Active Member
If this is in response to the post regarding TransEd's future of operating the VLSE, it's worth noting I don't think any decision like that would suddenly occur during the middle of the Christmas break after one significant incident. They're probably not related.
If this is just a comment in general, I partially agree, but I see it as being partially the City's fault for specing embedded track, and what might amount to restriction on efficient snow removal. We don't know if TransEd had chosen the best track materials they could have possibly selected (better costs more $$$$, and so less profit presumably) of if they had an adequate Winter Weather Strategy and if they followed it.
I remember how the U2's couldn't handle soft powdery snow and so ETS had to run trains at reduced speeds when that powdery snow was present and being kicked up by the trains momentum, and then sucked inside the cars and shorting out the traction motors.
Anyways...
The VLSE certainly does see high enough speeds that snow gets kicked up by it's momentum. The cars also have a plow-like design on the coupler cover to knock down and defect snow.
Looking at the weather history leading up to the issues on December 27 and 28th, 4.2mm of precipitation fell on the 26th starting at 15:00. Another 2.5mm fell on the 27th ending at 8:00. Environment Canada measured a snow depth change of 15cm from the 26 to the 27th. I assume this is only checked once per day, and likely after 8:00, and before 15:00. I'm less worried about the snow that fell on the 26th, which would have been about 9.4cm as trains passing would have kept that down. I don't see however that the snow that fell overnight of 5.6cm would have been enough by itself to prevent train operations. Indeed, for the periods that trains were not running (roughly 130AM until 5AM) there would have only been about 4cm of snow accumulated.
Although I didn't get out to the the VLSE until yesterday afternoon, I was surprised how much snow was still around. I honestly thought that with upwards of 2 days on portions of the line with no trains that the trackway would have been significantly cleared.