zang
Senior Member
Which was completed 8 years ago?
By that logic though, putting money into upgrading a house before selling would be ridiculous.
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By that logic though, putting money into upgrading a house before selling would be ridiculous.
Bayer
Senior Member
They might just think having their name on an empty building doesn't look good to visitors.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
CF is burning cash like nothing on East Harbour right now too. They have a massive amount of money sunk there including an absolutely absurd purchase price and now no market to support it's buildout.
I would be surprised to see CF sell the core Eaton Centre building. But the Hudson's Bay block has development potential which has now recently been unencumbered by the expiry of Hudson Bay's lease, and is going to be hard to backfill with retail tenants given it's size and overall disconnection from the rest of the mall - which CF has had enough challenges keeping leased on that side as it is.
The block is the perfect candidate for a large scale office block development, IMO.. but that's right in CF's wheelhouse so I don't think they would sell it if that was the play here. We will have to see.
Richard White
Senior Member
Another good thing is that with more people returning to the office, 1 Dundas West may also start filling up again along with 222 Yonge Street.
I am not sure how much 176 Yonge Street can be developed given the heritage status of the property. It's not like they can tear it down.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
You can do large-scale facade retention or demolition and reconstruction like-for-like.
Vancouver pulled this off - no reason Toronto couldn't do it with this block:
Vancouver pulled this off - no reason Toronto couldn't do it with this block:
Dan416
Senior Member
I work at 1 Dundas, and it's already full enough in my opinion. I have overheard people in the elevators talk about being brought back to the office (either 4 or 5 days a week, not sure). Not sure where they were working though. TMU has a good chunk of space in the building though, I think they have several floors.
I haven't noticed the building being more busy as of this year, though, I have noticed the Milton trains to be even more full than they already were, particularly on Monday this week which is usually a quiet day, but apparently not anymore, felt like a normal day now.
Amare
Senior Member
Please dont give them any ideas like this.You can do large-scale facade retention or demolition and reconstruction like-for-like.
Vancouver pulled this off - no reason Toronto couldn't do it with this block:
APTA-2048
Senior Member
I thought I was the only one that hated heritage buildings with a big modern addition jammed on top of it. Some sites pull it off, but doing this to every old building in the city sucks.
Northern Light
Superstar
You can do large-scale facade retention or demolition and reconstruction like-for-like.
Vancouver pulled this off - no reason Toronto couldn't do it with this block:
First, for the record, unless something slipped something big past me............this is not in the cards currently.
Second, the economics on this site would be vastly more complex. The heritage facades rap three sides of a very large block, to a vertical of between n 8 and 9 storeys.
The site is currently constrained by the Ontario Line Construction Project. (which will be there when operational, no tie-backs into the tunnels please) Metrolinx has a zone of control around this project and could effectively veto anything while construction is active.
The site is also constrained by Line 1 being both immediately to the east, but also directly connected into the building.
The site has additional path connections on 3 sides, not including the existing elevated bridge over Queen or the connection through Queen Station.
Portions of the interior of this building are expressly heritage protected and would have to be retained/reinstated.
On top of tall that, the heritage is integrated to into the existing, recently refurbished and re-clad office tower.
I don't see any economic case for wholesale redevelopment here in the near or medium term.
officedweller
Senior Member
Is the old Simpsons/Hudson's Bay building too far away from TMU to be bought out by TMU and renovated for institutional use? What would the heritage building be worth without the office tower?
AI says:
AI says:
Northern Light
Superstar
You're certainly pushing the limits, but it wouldn't be absurd on its face.
However, I'm not sure what type of space you have in mind, as-buiilt the floor to ceiling heights are not appropriate for lecture halls, with the possible exception of the first floor, which would seem an unfortunate way to face the street.
Lab facilities would not be compatible with the building as-is, generally.
Offices, would be the most realistic use, with some class room environments perhaps or housing. But that is a very expensive and complicated conversion.
The 650M is correct. I'm not a professional appraiser of commercial real estate, but if we took the sale prices of 2 Queen east per ft2 and applied to the office tower here, it would be something like 110M.
But you can't just deduct that number.
The valuation depends on whether the site has longer term lease potential as-is, realistic redevelopment potential and also you nave to consider extraordinary capital costs.
The latter meaning....how much would have to spend to render the building leasabe/usable beyond normal expected levels of cap-x.
That number would be high here. If you believe in the redevelopment option, things are different, w/o it.........I wouldn't call the building worthless by any stretch......but anyone taking it on is looking at well into a 9-figure re-hab job
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xmyth_
Senior Member
That far south and you’re almost encroaching on George Brown turf. TMU or GB though, what’s the general state of post secondary these days? I thought without all those foreign students and international tuitions reduced, cancelled or on hold- colleges were in trouble.
I imagine that post secondary and continuing ed also suffer the same fate of retail- and that’s online. Seems like fewer ground level retail in new condos are going to stores with products, and more experiences and services. CF May have to reinvent its mall formats.
I imagine that post secondary and continuing ed also suffer the same fate of retail- and that’s online. Seems like fewer ground level retail in new condos are going to stores with products, and more experiences and services. CF May have to reinvent its mall formats.
bcmc
New Member
New entrance on Yonge near Queen is almost open
nightstreak
Active Member
Sorely needed. Going through the narrow Ontario Line construction hoarding isn't a fun experience. This shortcut will be much nicer way to get into the Eaton Centre from Yonge and Queen.
Here's a map for context:
Attachments
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JasonParis
Moderator
Oh wow. I didn't know about this. Are they animating that new hallway in any way?