I’m personally still a strong believer that the VIA Concourse couldn’t be used for ALTO service no matter where the platforms are, even with a modern boarding process there’s gonna be too many passengers who need to pass through the space.

Factoring out lineups, the concourse is almost at full capacity when more than 1 VIA train departure is coming up.

The platform reconfiguration, increase in regional rail service, UP Express terminal relocation, and close tie-in to the future Bremner Concourse will bring a lot more non VIA/ALTO passengers through the concourse too.

The only layout modification that could happen is knocking down some walls around the remaining alcoves (some are to be taken up by new platform entrances) to open up space. I guess you could also remove the washrooms and Tim Hortons, alternative options are close.
 
Last edited:
rdaner said:
Question: For Alto, is it theoretically possible to tunnel under Union and have trains emerge to have platforms at Spadina and piggyback on the concept of another GO interchange station? Thanks!
Click to expand...

The short answer is 'yes'*; but the longer answer is that this would impair the service's viability. You want the direct connection as in walk-out, to business core. Spadina is too far west for that.

There are further complications, tunneling while expensive is viable, and you could reach grade again in time for a Spadina Station, all good. But there's a GO flyunder to consider, and the Bathurst Yard.

It's a messy idea with lots of headaches.

Since there will not be two downtown stations for Alto, I have to say its a 'No'. Technically feasible, kinda/sorta, but complex and undesirable in terms of passenger satisfaction and ridership.
 
WB62 said:
I’m personally still a strong believer that the VIA Concourse couldn’t be used for ALTO service no matter where the platforms are, even with a modern boarding process there’s gonna be too many passengers that need to pass through the space.

Factoring out lineups, the concourse is almost at full capacity when more than 1 VIA train departures are coming up.

The platform reconfiguration, increase in regional rail service, UP Express terminal relocation, and close tie-in to the future Bremner Concourse will bring much more non VIA/ALTO passengers through the concourse too......
Click to expand...

Agreed with the above.

Union, even with USEP will be pushing the limits of its capacity if proposed/hoped for GO Services are delivered.

Add the additional Amtrak runs proposed as well, the Northland, some additional VIA service and you have a very congested station.

While Alto should be connected to Union, it should not use existing station capacity to the greatest extent possible.
 
WB62 said:
I’m personally still a strong believer that the VIA Concourse couldn’t be used for ALTO service no matter where the platforms are, even with a modern boarding process there’s gonna be too many passengers who need to pass through the space.

Factoring out lineups, the concourse is almost at full capacity when more than 1 VIA train departure is coming up.
Click to expand...

This is entirely a problem of VIA's making. The concourse should not be a place to line up in. You see people lining up in single fashion all the way into the Great Hall. Then you have VIA attendants shouting out a train destination and platform number. Why? This happens due to VIA"s own policies and procedures.

The VIA concourse should be a place to pass through on your way up to the platform, that's it. The Great Hall is right there. Add a VIA departures board and a public address system. When the train arrives, announce the departure in both the Hall and Concourse seating areas via a public address system, open the gate and people walk up to the platform. Why are they being made to line up at all?
 
nightstreak said:
This is entirely a problem of VIA's making. The concourse should not be a place to line up in. You see people lining up in single fashion all the way into the Great Hall. Then you have VIA attendants shouting out a train destination and platform number. Why? This happens due to VIA"s own policies and procedures.

The VIA concourse should be a place to pass through on your way up to the platform, that's it. The Great Hall is right there. Add a VIA departures board and a public address system. When the train arrives, announce the departure in both the Hall and Concourse seating areas via a public address system, open the gate and people walk up to the platform. Why are they being made to line up at all?
Click to expand...

In my message above I said ignoring the lineups. The concourse still is too small for more than a couple hundred people at once, and way more than a hundred people will be passing through this space at any point in the future.

If ALTO does use this concourse, it could see at least 6 trainloads of people arriving and departing per hour (4 ALTO, and let’s say 2 VIA), plus passengers from dozens of GO trains.

My original message was getting long so I didn’t include this, but you also have to consider ALTOs premium brand and the customer experience ALTO wants to have, stuff like spacious waiting areas, a integrated business lounge, etc.
All that goes out the window if they use the VIA Concourse, it’s too small for significant renovations and passengers from every service are constantly passing through it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PL1
WB62 said:
In my message above I said ignoring the lineups. The concourse still is too small for more than a couple hundred people at once, and way more than a hundred people will be passing through this space at any point in the future.

If ALTO does use this concourse, it could see at least 6 trainloads of people arriving and departing per hour (4 ALTO, and let’s say 2 VIA), plus passengers from dozens of GO trains.

My original message was getting long so I didn’t include this, but you also have to consider ALTOs premium brand and the customer experience ALTO wants to have, stuff like spacious waiting areas, a integrated business lounge, etc.
All that goes out the window if they use the VIA Concourse, it’s too small for significant renovations and passengers from every service are constantly passing through it.
Click to expand...

Is it possible for Alto to simply replace VIA at Union? Platforms, tracks, concourse, business lounge and all? The concourse becomes a fare paid area with gates at the ramp. VIA's Ottawa/Montreal/Quebec routes are discontinued — who would want to take a 6 hour train instead of the 3 hour Alto — and the in-between stops and southern Ontario are served by GO trains boarded from the Bay and York Concourses. That leaves The Canadian, VIA's western leg which I'm sure could be accommodated in the Alto concourse with just two departures a week.
 
nightstreak said:
Is it possible for Alto to simply replace VIA at Union?
Click to expand...

No.

nightstreak said:
Platforms, tracks, concourse, business lounge and all? The concourse becomes a fare paid area with gates at the ramp. VIA's Ottawa/Montreal/Quebec routes are discontinued — who would want to take a 6 hour train instead of the 3 hour Alto — and the in-between stops and southern Ontario are served by GO trains boarded from the Bay and York Concourses. That leaves The Canadian, VIA's western leg which I'm sure could be accommodated in the Alto concourse with just two departures a week.
Click to expand...

You're underestimating the number of train movements currently and in the future. 4 Alto Trains alone could push the limits of the VIA concourse as constructed, and if you replaced servicing to Kingston with GO, as well as service to Windsor, (and you still have to allow for Amtrak which is planned to be 3 per day by the early 2030s....)

All of that could not be offloaded into the Bay/York concourses.

Anything is workable with enough money, but its just not the right plan.
 
Last edited:
If you somehow segregate GO passengers to only the Bay/York/Bremner Concourses you’d have to remove dozens of platform entrances in the middle of the station, which would overload the GO concourses as mentioned above.

You_Doodle+_2025-09-27T02_30_19Z.jpeg


The reconfiguration could end up being much different from my concept which uses a design from a few years ago, but assuming it is similar to this, it’s just not an ideal setup.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top