I wanna squeeze into this how the bridge looks discussion and just say I thought it was underwhelming compared to how they hyped it up. Something like the bridges just down the road in the Port Lands were what I was thinking we were gonna get.
 
I wanna squeeze into this how the bridge looks discussion and just say I thought it was underwhelming compared to how they hyped it up. Something like the bridges just down the road in the Port Lands were what I was thinking we were gonna get.
I expect those weren't value-engineered to death, to save 1% of the cost.

And still people will complain about the cost, if they are willing to complain about a cheap approach like this.
 
I basically critique Metrolinx on about 80% of what they do…. This bridge is NOT an example that I would criticize but rather applaud Mx for the first time in a while…. The bridge is gonna be a cool feature for the city (especially when it’s lit up at night) and become another landmark for our great city — and it was delivered ahead of schedule with minimal disruption. These are all outcomes we need to see more of from Mx. Way to go Metrolinx and partners!

Here’s hoping MX can continue to partner with whatever organizations planned and executed this section - it was done welll and so far, its early and on time - AND mostly installed during a really tough and long winter - WOW!
 
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The bridge looks nice. It serves its intended design purpose. The roadway underneath it was only closed for one Saturday during construction.
I don't understand what triggered the anger that last 2 pages ?

I'm disappointed it's supposed to take 3-4 years to finish the bridge according to the City and Mx respectively. I'm less concerned with subjective aesthetics. See my previous post with sources for the timeline.

I basically critique Metrolinx on about 80% of what they do…. This bridge is NOT an example that I would criticize but rather applaud Mx for the first time in a while…. The bridge is gonna be a cool feature for the city (especially when it’s lit up at night) and become another landmark for our great city — and it was delivered ahead of schedule with minimal disruption.
It's not delivered yet. Of course I'm happy the main thing was slid in place over less than a weekend. But that's tip of the iceberg. Major construction regarding the bridge started in 2024. Won't be completed until next year or later...

We were speculating on a potentially cheaper, non-arch bridge, without much more disruption to the DVP. I have nothing against the arch, I just don't understand why it can't be completed faster. Why 2027, and not end of year 2026?
 
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Completing the bridge earlier won't make the TBMs bore down Queen street any sooner. It's not on the critical path for this project so there's no sense in accelerating its timeline, something that likely costs money through more workers or overtime.
Oh no, a common sense answer! We can't have this ...

:)
 
Completing the bridge earlier won't make the TBMs bore down Queen street any sooner. It's not on the critical path for this project so there's no sense in accelerating its timeline, something that likely costs money through more workers or overtime.
Ostensibly reasonable, but I do not like this mentality of defaulting to: "we can't do X before we finish Y and Z." Well Y and Z both need to be faster. Nothing wrong with doing things concurrently. Or early.*

The same logic has been applied to GO Expansion and look where that's gotten us. What is desperately needed is organizational culture(s) of getting things done early, or at worst, on-time. Not procrastinating on something because technically it can't be used until a nebulous assortment of other sub-projects are finished first.

It starts with Metrolinx, but eventually involves the private sector partners too.

Ok the Burloak grade separation and others aren't done yet, does that stop us from starting work on electrification? Oh no, we've procrastinated so long that the current diesel fleet won't tide us over to when the electric locomotives go online. Guess we'll push electrification even later and procure more diesel locomotives... But wait, if we electrify too early, we won't get value for our money on those new/refurbished diesels... Let's push electrification of the non-Lakeshore lines to 204X.... (I embellish, but not by much)

Barring a significant change, we are genuinely looking at 2 decades before all 5 core GO lines are electrified. Asinine.

Not to mention electric locos are merely a stopgap solution before EMUs, caused by financial and political constraints.

More rants below:
And when you look at it you can't help but feel contempt for Phil Verster and the senior Mx team and their board.

Its not merely the delay or scaling back of electrification; though certainly, that's significant and unfortunate.

Its that signal work in the USRC wont' be complete until 2037! . And track work in the LSE Corridor is ongoing through 2035. SMH, who is anyone trying to fool? Its not a matter of hitting construction times comparable to China. Nor even 1/2 that.

Its taking projects that were promised to be substantially complete as early as 2024, and delivering them up to 14 years later. Its taking project components that are straight forward (like track) that involve no novel technology, and could, even in 2 or 3 phases, be delivered in a maximum of six years (I'd argue for 3 for any given line) ....and managing to stretch that time line by a factor of 3 (after a delayed start to construction).

This is a choice by unmotivated management; and by politicians who clearly don't view anything here as a legacy project, and most will be deceased (of old age) by the time its delivered.

The telling comment for me was when the 401 tunnels [Kitchener Line] were cited by the ML spokesperson as a sign of progress being made. They are a stranded asset that was paid off years ago [completed 2021] and still are not in operation. The sequencing of work on ML projects is fundamentally incompetent.
*Ok, maybe not that early↑

I'm not the only one expecting the Ontario Line to be horrendously late. My wild guess is 2035 instead of 2031...

What year were Lakeshore East express trains supposed to be restored again? Question credited to @Northern Light (They were stopped for East Harbour/Ontario Line construction)

 
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..., I just don't understand why it can't be completed faster. Why 2027, and not end of year 2026?

"Completion" might include installation of track and caternary system and tensioning of the cables for the final weight of the deck - and that won't be done until it's carried through from the adjacent areas. It depends what's in scope for it.
 
*Ok, maybe not that early↑

I'm not the only one expecting the Ontario Line to be horrendously late. My wild guess is 2035 instead of 2031...

What year were Lakeshore East express trains supposed to be restored again? Question credited to @Northern Light (They were stopped for East Harbour/Ontario Line construction)


LSE Express services were to be restored by August 2024.
 

though i do remember someone mentioning that MX is keeping the 3rd track out until Birchmount bridge is done?
Judging based off this and the bi-weekly the retaining walls are all complete on the north side. and the bridges are close to complete with "track installation" coming soon.
 

though i do remember someone mentioning that MX is keeping the 3rd track out until Birchmount bridge is done?
Judging based off this and the bi-weekly the retaining walls are all complete on the north side. and the bridges are close to complete with "track installation" coming soon.

Not sure what date to attach to that plan - but - The sequencing of how the tracks are completed through East Harbour station, and how work at Danforth station is planned, are probably the main constraints on getting back to triple track and resuming express service.

I'm told that the restriction to two tracks at Birchmount won't be as lengthy as first feared.

Having said that, either somebody was hugely optimistic, or things have slipped, or these encroaching constraints were never considered.

- Paul
 
The unfortunate reality of all of this discussion is that it's all hidden behind a veil of obscurity that means that you can share your opinion, he can share his opinion... but we actually can't definitively show anyone right or wrong.

Was this the most cost-optimal option? By how much? What was the time frame of alternatives? Was this done with aesthetics in mind or pure functionality? What are the nuisances with alternatives (Week+ long shut down of DVP?) We can really only extrapolate from the data we do know, such as the cost of construction, + O&M, and the suggested time frame. And even then, because we don't know the cost of construction, only the total package cost, and given the historic inability to keep a budget/time schedule, we also can't even rely on that data! The only thing we can pretty confidently state as a fact is that this entire subway line as a whole is probably going to be several times more expensive for a subway than many other places, both within and outside the anglosphere-- but that still tells us little about this particular bridge.

From my admittedly AI-assisted research (I am not an expert on bridge construction, forgive me!) it does tell me that rail over river bridges of this kind usually take around 2-4 years for construction, and longer if in a complex situation.

It's impossible to hedge all this information from the lack of info we have. The only comment I can really state on this is I wish we as a country/province/city/whatever pushed harder for faster & cheaper, because even our standards of fast & cheap are incredibly slow and expensive. (no this does not mean i want dead workers or no safety regulations, be reasonable & assume the best of others.)
 
Metrolinx came up with some new station names, I like them.
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