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Northern Light

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According to the Lobbyist Registry, this property will soon be in play, if the owners have their way.

Details for Subject Matter Registration: SM32446​


Decision(s) or issue(s) to be lobbied

Discussions related to 125 The Queensway, the Humber TTC loop and other transit-related opportunities.

Client is Fiera Real Estate

I know @interchange42 will be interested in this............
'
This is the Sobeys/Shoppers plaza on Queensway next to the Ontario Food Terminal.

Aerial Pic:

1634908796853.png


Streetview:

1634908916096.png


Site size: (strict) 3.4ha/8.5ac

If additional lands were added via the TTC tracks this site could be even larger.
 

cd concept

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Uh-oh ! The developments are starting to close in around the Ontario food terminal Won't be long before meat packing plant gets replaced by a new condo community area. Being close to a new GO line etc!
 
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Northern Light

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Uh-oh ! The developments are starting to close in around the meat packing plant. Won't be long before meat packing plant gets replaced by a new condo community area. Being close to a new GO line etc!

What meatpacking plant?
 

interchange42

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Sorry! I fix it to Ontario food terminal .
For the 80th time, the Ontario Government has made it nearly impossible to replace the Ontario Food Terminal with anything else as it's been designated a special economic zone of provincial importance, or words to that effect.

In regards to the 125 The Queensway property, the City in the latest update to the Lake Shore-Park Lawn Transportation Study is suggesting a new road under the Gardiner that would link Lake Shore and The Queensway to the Gardiner off-ramps through the 125 The Queensway site, aligned along the current north-south route into the plaza area. I'm assuming that this is what has prompted Fiera Capital to start thinking about what changes they could make here.

Personally, I'd be good with a makeover as long as the Sobey's was continually operating, should it end up moving to another spot on the property. I live less than a mile to the north in the Stonegate area, and the further north you get from The Queensway, the more of a food desert the area becomes. (Years after the Valumart closed on the property, a grocery co-op has still not opened at VanDyk's redeveloping Backyard Neighbourhood Condos site.)

42
 

Northern Light

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Why a sad face @Amare ?

The current site isn't particularly redeeming architecturally; the abundance of surface parking not the sort of thing we typically would lament the loss of here.

As Interchange noted, they need to keep a supermarket here (and ideally some additional retail).......but certainly that could be done in a more urban way, to everyone's benefit.
 
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UrbanOzz

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as long as they keep the grocery there. I lived at NXT and grocery options were limited. This Sobeys was the best option.
 

Amare

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Why a sad face @Amare ?

The current site isn't particularly redeeming architecturally; the abundance of surface parking not the sort of thing we typically would lament the loss of here.

As Interchanged noted, they need to keep a supermarket here (and ideally some additional retail).......but certainly that could be done in a more urban way, to everyone's benefit.
The main reason i'm a little hesitant with this one is with the potential loss of the Sobey's, that and I know any development here will just result in increased traffic as transit usage will likely be extremely low.

Whatever changes that we may see in the future here, my hopes are that:

1) A Full Service supermarket is retained. If that chain is Sobey's, leave it as a Full Market Sobey's. That store is considered their flagship store in Ontario, so to convert it to anything less than that would be immensely idiotic.

2) Density should be tapered down significantly compared to what we're seeing take place at HBS. We dont need 5x200 metre Eau de Soleil's sprouting up here, as even with the road realignment any development here would be located a fair distance away from the Park Lawn GO. Yet another reason the province's TOD development scheme is flawed, it takes only distance into account, no matter how complex road/pedestrian access is. The density should transition downwards to the neighborhood context to the north.
 

Towered

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Excellent - I was just wondering to myself last week why there hasn't been a proposal here yet since it's low hanging fruit in a very hot area. This plaza sucks.
 

interchange42

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Excellent - I was just wondering to myself last week why there hasn't been a proposal here yet since it's low hanging fruit in a very hot area. This plaza sucks.
Its stores are all well-patronized, so it's important to the area, but a phased rebuild of it could make better use of the land for sure and provide the retail space needed in the base of new development blocks. Parking can go underground of course.

The main reason i'm a little hesitant with this one is with the potential loss of the Sobey's, that and I know any development here will just result in increased traffic as transit usage will likely be extremely low.

Whatever changes that we may see in the future here, my hopes are that:

1) A Full Service supermarket is retained. If that chain is Sobey's, leave it as a Full Market Sobey's. That store is considered their flagship store in Ontario, so to convert it to anything less than that would be immensely idiotic.

2) Density should be tapered down significantly compared to what we're seeing take place at HBS. We dont need 5x200 metre Eau de Soleil's sprouting up here, as even with the road realignment any development here would be located a fair distance away from the Park Lawn GO. Yet another reason the province's TOD development scheme is flawed, it takes only distance into account, no matter how complex road/pedestrian access is. The density should transition downwards to the neighborhood context to the north.
Here's assuming that easy access to Park Lawn GO station will be made alongside the tracks from this proposed new north-south roadway, as yes, anyone living on this site would benefit from fast access to downtown, so a walkway would need to go in to get to the station. Someday in the hazy future, the Waterfront West LRT will serve the area too, while there's already the 501 Queen/Lake Shore, the 80 Queensway and 66 Prince Edward bus lines, so existing transit and promised transit here is not quite as tragic as portrayed.

42
 

Amare

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Here's assuming that easy access to Park Lawn GO station will be made alongside the tracks from this proposed new north-south roadway, as yes, anyone living on this site would benefit from fast access to downtown, so a walkway would need to go in to get to the station. Someday in the hazy future, the Waterfront West LRT will serve the area too, while there's already the 501 Queen/Lake Shore, the 80 Queensway and 66 Prince Edward bus lines, so existing transit and promised transit here is not quite as tragic as portrayed.

42
The issue being of course (and as you alluded to), we have no idea when said WWLRT will be built. In the meantime, 501 service is abysmally slow and riders will look to every alternative away from it, the 80 operates on pathetic 30 minute headways which helps no one, and the 66 is pretty much near capacity already at peak frequencies (pre-Covid). Basically, the TTC will need to improve service dramatically from what we have today, which is something they've been struggling to do.

I think it's pretty self explanatory as to why. Having 5x200 metre towers on one side of the street, followed by single family homes that will never be redevelopped to high-rise right on the opposite side of the street is outright silly.
 

ProjectEnd

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The issue being of course (and as you alluded to), we have no idea when said WWLRT will be built. In the meantime, 501 service is abysmally slow and riders will look to every alternative away from it, the 80 operates on pathetic 30 minute headways which helps no one, and the 66 is pretty much near capacity already at peak frequencies (pre-Covid). Basically, the TTC will need to improve service dramatically from what we have today, which is something they've been struggling to do.


I think it's pretty self explanatory as to why. Having 5x200 metre towers on one side of the street, followed by single family homes that will never be redevelopped to high-rise right on the opposite side of the street is outright silly.
Why?
 

Northern Light

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Is it possible to fit five skyscraper towers on this parcel of land? It like three or four!

The exact number would depend on how much space needs to be allocated to roads, and parks.

But if you assumed as little as 40% would be tower footprint, you'd be closer to six towers. Note that I have not literally looked at how that would work in terms of hypothetical separation distances, buffers/setbacks.............etc.
It's a ballpark, and a very conservative one.

***

I will add here, that the City might be interested in acquiring some of it for a larger park space given the deficiency of that in the area relative to demand.
So that could shave some space off.
 

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