The City setting height peaks like that seems somewhat arbitrary and aesthetic to me. I mean why not have a height peak here if it doesn't impact parks or other aspects of the public realm or other nearby areas in a negative way? There's already skyscrapers on either side and for blocks all around, so why does the height have to peak at Yonge? It seems like somewhat of an aesthetic judgement call vs. there being any concrete reason why there couldn't be a new height peak a street or so over from Yonge. And this site is a hop skip and a jump from Yonge.

If a hypothetical proposal were to dodge around all the shadowing issues, etc., what's the reason besides just the City made the aesthetic/planning judgemental call that Yonge should be the peak?

Not that I totally object to somewhat of an aesthetic approach taken in designing our skyline and the built form of the city — that has its advantages — and the height spire along Yonge is cool, but also some 3D depth within skyscraper districts would be aesthetically compelling too and I kind of see no reason not to allow it if the building doesn't have any negative impacts. Other cities around the world also have depth and various peaks throughout and we see this height depth forming in the southern part of the city now with Forma creating a new peak in the west skyline.

What would be the harm if this site were to become a height peak? (Just as a theoretical case — I think we're unlikely to see such a thing attempted here.) So long as it doesn't shadow parks, etc. the City saying the height peak needs to be at Yonge seems largely arbitrary. I wonder if City height peak preferences would hold up in appeal if a project decided to push to create a new peak and had the right circumstances where the shadowing impacts would be minimal.
 
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That's exactly what happened with 400 in the Entertainment District... the developer in that case was granted extra height.
 
just for fun 😜 - a few (VERY) crude block massings of what a 360m tower would look like on that site as well as a shorter (more realistic) 305m version. Both have a floorplate of ~560m2 to accommodate 25m setbacks to east, south, & west.

first the ~fun~ one (360m):
Screen Shot 2023-02-03 at 02.37.04.png
.

and then the smaller one (305m):
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To avoid any issue, all a building need do is cast no greater shadow than an 85 storey 'The One' is casting already.

Its safe to say a lot of height is very possible here.

Also to note, given separation distance requirements, albeit more relaxed than what we're used to; will require this be a very small floorplate, which means a very brief and narrow shadow.

***

For the record, I do not know the exact dimensions of what's coming, though I have an idea.

But I have examined the site boundaries, considered precedent and current planning leanings, and I find it very difficult to imagine a floorplate larger than 650m2; and smaller is entirely plausible.

The economics of a such a small floor plate are, uh....... challenging........as @ProjectEnd has outlined in the past.

But they aren't impossible.
They need to promote to those billionaires who bought units in Manhattan’s pencil towers. Hey, Toronto’s a bargain compared to Manhattan 😉
 
I didn’t think that Toronto’s real-estate market - especially for premium units - was in good enough shape to warrant a new tower in this area.
 
So...another fanciful zoning exercise then?
 
The City setting height peaks like that seems somewhat arbitrary and aesthetic to me. I mean why not have a height peak here if it doesn't impact parks or other aspects of the public realm or other nearby areas in a negative way? There's already skyscrapers on either side and for blocks all around, so why does the height have to peak at Yonge? It seems like somewhat of an aesthetic judgement call vs. there being any concrete reason why there couldn't be a new height peak a street or so over from Yonge. And this site is a hop skip and a jump from Yonge.

If a hypothetical proposal were to dodge around all the shadowing issues, etc., what's the reason besides just the City made the aesthetic/planning judgemental call that Yonge should be the peak?

Not that I totally object to somewhat of an aesthetic approach taken in designing our skyline and the built form of the city — that has its advantages — and the height spire along Yonge is cool, but also some 3D depth within skyscraper districts would be aesthetically compelling too and I kind of see no reason not to allow it if the building doesn't have any negative impacts. Other cities around the world also have depth and various peaks throughout and we see this height depth forming in the southern part of the city now with Forma creating a new peak in the west skyline.

What would be the harm if this site were to become a height peak? (Just as a theoretical case — I think we're unlikely to see such a thing attempted here.) So long as it doesn't shadow parks, etc. the City saying the height peak needs to be at Yonge seems largely arbitrary. I wonder if City height peak preferences would hold up in appeal if a project decided to push to create a new peak and had the right circumstances where the shadowing impacts would be minimal.
The height peak doesn’t just revolve around Yonge/Bloor. It actually stretches to Bay in the west - so this site falls within the peak area already.
 
So...another fanciful zoning exercise then?

I don't know if the new owners are looking to build themselves.

But I would not describe the exercise as fanciful. At the price that I understand to have been paid here, the owners will take a bath if this remains 2s/3s retail.

Lets keep in mind, the current market notwithstanding; that any proposal here is unlikely to see sales before 2024 at the very earliest, and 2025 is more realistic; approvals wouldn't likely come any faster than that, assuming a submission were ready to go following closing of the current transactions in March. (and I'm not at all certain on that point).

Lots of large developments take much longer to wind their way to building.
 
It'll be funny to see what the purchaser does with this piece. I don't think they've ever had something as 'front and centre' as this.
 
I didn’t think that Toronto’s real-estate market - especially for premium units - was in good enough shape to warrant a new tower in this area.
I'm sure there's always a market for money laundering though. And while our condo market might not be as ideal of a target as it used to be, it probably has some appeal on that front regardless.
 
So up to 4 units per floor with a 3 elevator and one stairwell core? I mean anymore, folks residing there would have to be of Lilliputian dimensions.
 

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