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SunriseChampion

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You know what I mean. Part of winning is keeping a coalition of voters together and SoCons are part of that for the CPC.

Ok, sure, but specifically what "coded messages" is he slinging about?

Make assertion. Provide evidence to support it.


A lot of the time, things that are taken as such are anything but, but are taken as such by the very people one would be projecting such messages to.
 

SunriseChampion

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Which sounds a bit like the same old sour grapes over FPTP vs proportional representation. But with PR presumably not forthcoming for 2019 (though who knows re 2023), you have live with the status quo, whether you're pleased with it or not.

Sour grapes or clarification in regards to the absurdity of it all? I would say, "You be the judge", but I see you're already on that.

Uh, Ontario. The NDP nearly doubled their seat total, jumped into official opposition with a third of the vote (and except for the virtual dead heat minority of 1985, the largest OO seat total since 1902), and left the governing Liberals in the dust. True, they didn't win. And yes, those gains might be reversed next time, much as they were federally in 2015. But to deny that was an "orange wave" is like denying the same about Jack-mania in 2011, even if the NDP didn't win *that* time, either. It may not be a lasting moment...but it *was* a moment.

I don't reckon the two are of the same caliber. The 2011 federal "orange wave" was actually impressive. The provincial one you describe was an inevitability given the unpopularity of the government of the time.

Though, to bring it back to "sour grapes" or whatever, I'd say both were in no small part a function of the "infrastructure".
 

adma

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I don't reckon the two are of the same caliber. The 2011 federal "orange wave" was actually impressive. The provincial one you describe was an inevitability given the unpopularity of the government of the time.

How was it a mere "inevitability"? Conventional wisdom was that as unpopular as the Libs were, it wasn't like their left flank was to destined to shift wholesale to the NDP. Right up t/w the end of April, any poll that showed the NDP ahead of the Libs for 2nd was the sort to arouse "rogue poll" circumspection--but then when it looked like the NDP was tipping past the 30% mark and the Libs sinking t/w the 20% mark, it was like, uh-oh. Because the counter-conventional wisdom had been that the NDP would be the eternal third party, maybe with a "25" ceiling in seats or share total. Sure, what happened may not be of the same shocking scale as 2011 federally (esp. in Quebec)--but you can't deny its "waveness", all the same.

Though, to bring it back to "sour grapes" or whatever, I'd say both were in no small part a function of the "infrastructure".

Well, you do speak with the inherent chip on the shoulder one might expect from someone who got 2.7% vs a 45.7% NDP winner. Like, diminishing the NDP's achievement the way a loser in an ugly divorce case might trash-talk his ex-spouse or claim the "legal infrastructure" was unfair.

Look, I'm not diminishing the Greens' achievement--I was of a "watch Mike Schreiner" POV last year, at least when it came to his own seat. But to project a NB or PEI provincial Green-vs-NDP dynamic federally and nation-wide is, *at this point*, still wildly out of line except in the wishful eyes of Green partisans. And when it comes to "infrastructure", face it--the 8 central Toronto ridings are solidly Liberal federally, but solidly NDP provincially, and 5 out of 8 municipal councillors are also NDP, and that's the ballast in place, While the closest thing (sans solid proof) to a non-NDP-aligned "Green type" elected to City Council in recent times *might* be Glenn De Baeremaeker--whatever the case, you can see the disjuncture, the stacked deck, whatever...
 

Videodrome

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Ok, sure, but specifically what "coded messages" is he slinging about?

Make assertion. Provide evidence to support it.


A lot of the time, things that are taken as such are anything but, but are taken as such by the very people one would be projecting such messages to.

Going to March For Life events, or sending his MP's to them is a good example.
 

narduch

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Screen_Shot_2017_07_13_at_1.09.20_PM.0.jpeg
 

SunriseChampion

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How was it a mere "inevitability"?

The unpopularity of the Liberals made it an inevitability.

Well, you do speak with the inherent chip on the shoulder one might expect from someone who got 2.7% vs a 45.7% NDP winner. Like, diminishing the NDP's achievement the way a loser in an ugly divorce case might trash-talk his ex-spouse or claim the "legal infrastructure" was unfair.

I'm sorry, what? You're making some bold assumptions. I'm not opposed to the electoral system because it disadvantages any one particular party. I'm not involved with the Greens at any level anymore. Haven't been a member since 2014.

I gave up on politics a long time ago. It's a miracle I still bother to vote, to be honest. There's no point. I guess I just do it in honour of all my homies in North Korea, China, Cuba, et al as a sort of pathetic show of how much better we have it when it comes to assigning leadership.

I'm opposed to the electoral system because it's an unfair and illogical mechanism for the imposition of false majorities and the disenfranchisement of millions.

It favours entrenched powers and discourages political collaboration. It imposes the will of the minority on the majority. It's shit maths.

It's a joke and embarrassment.

I'm already looking forward to hearing about how I should vote for people I disagree with in order to prevent other people I disagree with from attaining or retaining power.

At this point I'd vote for a dead dog, same result.

EDIT: I should add that my dislike of our electoral system is what got me involved with the Greens in the first place because at that time they were the only ones ever talking about electoral reform. It was not the other way around.
 
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SunriseChampion

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Going to March For Life events, or sending his MP's to them is a good example.

A good example of what?
That's not a "coded message". That's a rather blatant showing of one's beliefs.

Look, mate, it's 2019....we have to accept all the kooky religious folk, whether we agree with their fascistic moralising or not. (And I say this as someone who thinks Hitchens, Harris, and Dawkins actually know what's up....or knew, in Hitchens' case).


Showing up at March For Life isn't even what's wrong with Scheer. (And I say this as someone who has personally benefitted from the legal status of abortions, to be selfish about it).

He's ecologically and economically illiterate. I don't care that he believes in ghosts.
 

SunriseChampion

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It’s this weird new banana thing they are doing. I don’t know why

Well, because Trudeau is bananas, obviously.

In this politically correct climate, they probably didn't think they'd get away from the language fascists saying something more along the lines of #TrudeauIsMental.

I don't even think he's bananas or mental, myself. I just think he's a creepy and self-important narcissist with some rather socially dangerous ideas on the utility of tribalism and the attainment and retention of power.

So........hmmm.......#TrudeuIsAWannabeAuthoritarian

Just doesn't sound as smooth as #TrudeauIsBananas, you see what I mean.
 

Thorns_Embrace

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Honestly comparing Trudeau to a banana is offensive to bananas. Bananas at least can be used as food while Trudeau is a waste of space.
 

SunriseChampion

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Honestly comparing Trudeau to a banana is offensive to bananas. Bananas at least can be used as food while Trudeau is a waste of space.

What are you trying to say? Trudeau is low on fructose and potassium? Them's fighting words, mate.

I wouldn't call him a waste of space. I'm sure he's a decent teacher. He seems genuinely nice and gentle. He is, however, a typical Liberal: power-hungry and arrogant AF. That alone is enough to disqualify him from contention in my little mind. I don't even need to get into his tribalistic bollocks.

I'm even going to go out on a mind-fuck of a limb here and say he's been good for Canada's international image and relations (take a picture, folks, you'll rarely--or ever?-- see me complimenting the dude).

Frankly, I don't give a toss about the evil turds in China and Saudi Arabia (or that moron murderer Duterte, whilst we're at it) having a hate on for us. Their behaviour is a pathetic reflex to being called out. Typical bully behaviour. All autocrats have always and will always be psychopaths.

Anyway, Trudeau has put a bit of a soft power shine on our reputation that was damaged by the previous robot, er, PM. That's all I'm saying. Sorry about that side-rant about psychopathic tyrants....I've got Hong Kong on the mind. Grew up with a lot of friends from there. They've done alright over the last couple of weeks. :)
 

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