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- Thread starter Towered
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lenaitch
Senior Member
To a point, but there is the matter of sovereign integrity. In terms of continental defence, if left to the US, your are correct that they would not likely let it happen because we are a flank that they will not leave unprotected. But they would do it on their terms.
lenaitch
Senior Member
I've thought about that too. It's presence has been all over the media for a couple of days. Obviously, Ukraine couldn't carry the battle over the border. We don't know the tactical situation and whether this is contested airspace. We armchair generals are left to wonder
Richard White
Senior Member
To put this into perspective, I was talking to my 86 year old Grandmother earlier who was in Budapest as Soviet tanks rolled in.
She was there when the Soviets were cast out and when they came back with force. She watched as soldiers and tanks drove through the Hungarian capital in 1956.
While she is very much concerned for Ukraine she is also upset by the double standard.
When Hungary was invaded by the USSR in 1956, their Prime Minister requested help from the West to repel the invasion. That help was refused.
Now when Ukraine is invaded the West comes to their aid.
The past is the past but it does put things into perspective.
She was there when the Soviets were cast out and when they came back with force. She watched as soldiers and tanks drove through the Hungarian capital in 1956.
While she is very much concerned for Ukraine she is also upset by the double standard.
When Hungary was invaded by the USSR in 1956, their Prime Minister requested help from the West to repel the invasion. That help was refused.
Now when Ukraine is invaded the West comes to their aid.
The past is the past but it does put things into perspective.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
The reason the west is eagerly helping Ukraine is because of the lessons of the past, of Poland in 1939, of Hungary in 1956. Learning and applying lessons from the past is not a double standard.
Besides, Ukraine isn‘t getting what they want. They don’t want weapons, they want foreign intervention. And they’re not going to get it.
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Richard White
Senior Member
Bay of Pigs anyone?
Northern Light
Superstar
However this turns out, the comparison is inapt.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Also like it or not Hungary was firmly in the Warsaw Bloc in 1956 - direct intervention meant a high risk of escalation to nuclear war. In this instance - the west is assisting with sanctions and supply of weapons for a country that had been independent for over 30 years, but again avoiding direct conflict with Russia
Also keep in mind the Bay of Pigs lead to Castro being paranoid and leaning to the Soviets - the latter to their credit maintained control over the nukes in Cuba - Castro would have used them. The West cannot be directly involved in the fighting -part of the effectiveness of the Ukrainian resistance belies the fact that it is being seen as a fraternal war right now, not between the Slavs and outsiders. Watch for Putin trying to escalate and drag the west in so that he can have a pretext.
AoD
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SkylineHorizon
Active Member
There should be a "Putin" thread for this article...
Photos: Putin keeps his distance during meetings
From link.
Russian President Vladimir Putin leads a meeting on economic issues in Moscow on Monday. (Alexei Nikolsky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)
Putin with Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu, second from left, and Valery Gerasimov, head of the general staff of the armed forces, in Moscow on Sunday. (Alexei Nikolsky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)
Putin toasts with Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev after talks in the Kremlin on Feb. 22. (Mikhail Klimentyev, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)
Putin and Aliyev during a news conference at the Kremlin on Feb. 22. (Mikhail Klimentyev, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)
Putin and Aliyev during their meeting in the Kremlin on Feb. 22. (Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)
Putin chairs a security council meeting at the Kremlin on Feb. 21, days before the invasion of Ukraine. (Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)
Putin and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz during talks in the Kremlin on Feb. 15. (Mikhail Klimentyev, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)
Putin meets at a distance with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Feb. 14. (Alexei Nikolsky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)
Putin and French President Emmanuel Macron on Feb. 7. (Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP, File
Putin and Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán toast after talks in the Kremlin on Feb. 1. (Alexei Nikolsky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Bjays92
Senior Member
Trump was also actively trying to deconstruct NATO. Canada should not be complacent in assuming the US will come to help no matter how likely that may be.
Powers rise and fall, and the geopolitical structure changes, we're seeing that as we speak and we need to be prepared.
Putin bombed a holocaust memorial yesterday as apart of his "denazification" campaign. Who knows where he'll stop. I think he's crazy enough to try and take on NATO.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
This is well done.
Richard White
Senior Member
As much as Putin is in charge, I wouldn't put it past members of the Russian government to start a coup if crimes against humanity were committed or contemplated.
Putin may be firmly in charge but I doubt anyone in the Russian government wants to be on the wrong side of history if this goes sideways.
Towered
Senior Member
I'm sure there are whispers among shadowy figures within the cavernous halls of the Kremlin...
