[DKsan]

Seems like it's about time to create this thread.

The City of Brampton is embarking on its Queen Street Masterplan Study to determine whether to put BRT, LRT, or a combination on the Queen Street corridor. LINK HERE

City is studying Queen Street from McLaughlin Road to Highway 50.

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Metrolinx previously did a Benefits Case Analysis. HERE

Study previously had four options, from Downtown Brampton to VMC

• 1A BRT all the way, costs $563.6 million
• 1B BRT between Downtown and Airport Road, existing Zum to VMC, costs $385.2 million
• 2A LRT all the way, costs $757.7 million
• 2B LRT between Downtown and Airport Road, existing Zum to VMC, costs $480.0 million

Study found 1A to be best money for value. 2A would have highest ridership by 2031.

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Politics, we're going to have a clamouring for 2A, or a "2C" between DT and Bramalea City Centre. The study area going to McLaughlin could also complicate things.

 

[Euphoria]

What a fucked up city Brampton is. Sorry. I work there and the inane behavior of city council never ceases to amaze. They had (still have?) the highest paid mayor in the country and a history of mismanagement that the new mayor was supposed to clean up, yet council couldn't find a way to accept the Provincially funded LRT that was to reach the downtown GO station from Mississauga along Hurontario. Council worried about the room for an LRT on Main St. downtown, but instead of considering options such as tunneling or re-routing a short segment through the downtown, they're proposing this other caper. I imagine they'll get their lousy busway. Driving along Queen St. east of the four corners is like playing chicken with the drivers spilling directly out of strip mall driveways onto the six-lane roadway. I'm always thankful that I avoided a carjacking or mauling by one of the crystal meth addicts lingering in doorways. Oh yeah, what's with guys wearing toques in summertime walking directly in front of your moving vehicle? Some crazy shit...

 

[salsa]

Council worried about the room for an LRT on Main St. downtown, but instead of considering options such as tunneling or re-routing a short segment through the downtown, they're proposing this other caper.

Actually, they did consider other alternatives, all of which were rejected by staff for being inferior to the original plan. A tunnel under Main St probably would have been the least dumb alternative but council balked at the extra cost, and the same NIMBYs who fought against the surface alignment started complaining that the vibrations from the tunnel would damage the heritage buildings. What a joke.

What a fucked up city Brampton is. Sorry.

No need to be ashamed for telling it like it is.

 

[Euphoria]

Wow, a tunnel north of Nanwood, it seems, would've solved the problem. I don't know why council didn't support this. I don't imagine a streetcar tunnel on the scale of the Union to Harbourfront would be so out of hand. It's not a subway, but it would really give that town a well-needed feel of urbanity. Old Brampton near Peel Village is actually quite beautiful. Gage Park is something special, but so many of the grande dame Victorians have been carved up into rooming houses and let go. It's a real shame. It's quite an extensive stock of heritage buildings. The Rose Theatre development was an attempt at a grand gesture. It's success is debatable. Brampton needs help.

 

[TOareaFan]

do we need another thread to discuss the HLRT?

 

[DKsan]

Before anyone gets too yelly about the Queen Street line, keep in mind that

• A) this is in the Big Move
• B) this is the same phase of the Big Move as the Hurontario LRT
• C) Technically, Queen Street in Brampton has higher ridership than Main
• D) This has been on the city's long term transportation masterplan for DECADES

 

[TOareaFan]

^ re: "C"....why add the word technically? it either has higher ridership or it doesn't

 

[Hopkins123]

LRT is overkill. And if done ruins the continuity of running one direct service from Mt Pleasant GO to VMCC. The money for rails would be better served investing in tunneling the BRT segment between the 410 and McLaughlin.

 

[TOareaFan]

LRT is overkill. And if done ruins the continuity of running one direct service from Mt Pleasant GO to VMCC. The money for rails would be better served investing in tunneling the BRT segment between the 410 and McLaughlin.

BRT is (IMO) the right choice here....but if you think you can tunnel from 410 to McLaughlin for the difference between BRT and LRT here, I think you may be underestimating the cost of tunneling.

The first post in this thread shows the difference between full BRT and full LRT at around $194MM....is that enough to put 4km of that BRT underground?

 

[doady]

Queen LRT might be justified if it connected to Hurontario LRT. Too bad.

 

[ShonTron]

BRT is the right choice for Queen Street, as it will feed the subway in Vaughan, the one-seat ride offered by Route 501 should be maintained from Downtown Brampton and Bramalea. Terminating an LRT at Airport Road or Highway 50 makes little sense in a regional context. It will also use VivaNext and Highway 407. LRT makes sense on Main Street because it is part of the Hurontario corridor.

 

[DKsan]

Yes, well we all know how council is going to vote on this one ("MADE IN BRAMPTON LRT SOLUTION").

 

[TOareaFan]

Queen LRT might be justified if it connected to Hurontario LRT. Too bad.

Ah the path to ovespending.....build an LRT where the ridership supports BRT....then study another route with higher ridership but, still, within BRT ranges....but because the first one is an LRT, make the second one LRT as well

 

[W. K. Lis]

Census population numbers for Brampton:

1996: 268,251
2001: 325,428
2006: 433,806
2011: 523,911

Queen Street in Brampton may have the numbers for a BRT in 2011, but I'll bet it would be need a LRT when the 2016 census numbers come out. Even more so by 2021 and beyond.

BTW. The population of the old city of Toronto was about 736,775 in 2011.

 

[TOareaFan]

Census population numbers for Brampton:

1996: 268,251
2001: 325,428
2006: 433,806
2011: 523,911

Queen Street in Brampton may have the numbers for a BRT in 2011, but I'll bet it would be need a LRT when the 2016 census numbers come out. Even more so by 2021 and beyond.

BTW. The population of the old city of Toronto was about 736,775 in 2011.

If you are just going off of population growth/size and ignoring things like transit use and where that population is being added...I guess that makes sense.....yet the people who studied H(m)LRT and ended up recommending LRT knowing those same population growth figures, and assuming pretty radical shifts in modal share still came up with this chart