Do you support the proposal for the new arena?

  • Yes

    Votes: 102 67.5%

  • No

    Votes: 39 25.8%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 10 6.6%
  • Total voters
    151
Duck Lightning said:
I think the unmarked spot might end up being the refrigeration plant and electrical? A lot of the utilities have to be above the flood line after all and they took up a sizable portion of the above ground space in the previous plan too.
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That makes sense! Not even just flood related, i know from a close engineering friend, due to the Fernie tragedy new ice plants now need direct external access. Much like at Rogers (and other rinks for that matter) though, office space went above shipping, utilities, and the casino....so still doable in that space!

Small thing, and not to bring up that existing parkade again...but with the EC's boundary now shifting east to 4th...does it not make sense to just demo the thing with the saddledome and let 4th continue south ,and atleast give some sensibility to the road network? Not sure 5th will be all that functional, so just get rid of it south of 12ave? The rivers plan doesnt really address the change in designated EC space
 
Tothewest said:
That makes sense! Not even just flood related, i know from a close engineering friend, due to the Fernie tragedy new ice plants now need direct external access. Much like at Rogers (and other rinks for that matter) though, office space went above shipping, utilities, and the casino....so still doable in that space!

Small thing, and not to bring up that existing parkade again...but with the EC's boundary now shifting east to 4th...does it not make sense to just demo the thing with the saddledome and let 4th continue south ,and atleast give some sensibility to the road network? Not sure 5th will be all that functional, so just get rid of it south of 12ave? The rivers plan doesnt really address the change in designated EC space
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I'm not sure I quite follow what you mean by the arena shifting east of 4th as it's already east of 4t street/Stampede Trail. 5th Street is being replaced by a new 5a street on the east side of the arena which is needed for north access into Stampede Park if Stampede Trail is closed for events.
 
Duck Lightning said:
I'm not sure I quite follow what you mean by the arena shifting east of 4th as it's already east of 4t street/Stampede Trail. 5th Street is being replaced by a new 5a street on the east side of the arena which is needed for north access into Stampede Park if Stampede Trail is closed for events.
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shit, 🫣, meant 5a. Got thinking about 4th/stampede trail, screwed up the lamguage. *should 5th be axed entirely south of 12, and just have 5a be a clean N/S road.. the zig zag around the EC for the current 5th seems awkward
 

The Agreement is now up on the City website: Event Centre Agreement​

This is just a sample. There's much more up on the site.​


Screenshot (163).png
Screenshot (164).png
 
Initial thoughts....
1) it appears CSEC has first right on the bus barn, the corner piece of EC land, and then some surrounding development. Not sure if that was clearly outlined before
2) If $608M was the total before, which included that outdoor plaza, parkade, office space, and the smaller indoor lobby on SW corner....the fact we've jumped to $873.6 is significant (community rink not included). Inflation is one thing albeit not overly significant , and thoughts aside on why/how we got to the funding formula....a $265M jump means we're getting something significantly better

Can disregard my earlier 5a thoughts as well, it appears that isnt the plan. doesnt mean it shouldnt be!!!
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I’m still annoyed at the parkade. I think if there’s going to be a parkade, it should form part of the future redevelopment site. If the Flames want a parkade so bad, they can build in into their future headquarters and bury a few levels of it.
 
adamyyc said:
I’m still annoyed at the parkade. I think if there’s going to be a parkade, it should form part of the future redevelopment site. If the Flames want a parkade so bad, they can build in into their future headquarters and bury a few levels of it.
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How is it going to do that, the EC block can only go one story down bc of a lack of ramp space. Nobody is annoyed at an office building with a parkade, why is this any different. For all we know its city mandated because of how many people are employed there
 
Tothewest said:
How is it going to do that, the EC block can only go one story down bc of a lack of ramp space. Nobody is annoyed at an office building with a parkade, why is this any different. For all we know its city mandated because of how many people are employed there
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The last plan definitely didn't have much space for a ramp underground but the new plan should have more than enough space underground for a sizable ramp. In fact maybe a larger and deeper hole is one of the reasons the arena has so much additional money being dumped into it this time around.
 
Tothewest said:
How is it going to do that, the EC block can only go one story down bc of a lack of ramp space. Nobody is annoyed at an office building with a parkade, why is this any different. For all we know its city mandated because of how many people are employed there
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1. As noted by Duck Lightning, the site (now 10 ac) is larger (~40%) than it was previously. I would think there should now be room for a ramp (Edmonton buried it’s parking on a smaller site). There may be other constraints I’m not aware of (cost probably being the main driver), but space doesn’t seem like one anymore.
2. How many parking stalls does $35.4M buy? I don’t think we know the answer to this yet, but I believe someone on the forum counted the number of stalls in the last design and it was 190. It looks like the new parkade area will be larger, but I’d say best case scenario, the Parkade has 1,000 spaces at ~$35k/stall. More realistically, the Parkade probably has 300 - 500 stalls for a significantly higher price per stall.
3. There is a significant amount of parking within a 10 minute walk of the event centre, including Platform which cost $80M for 509 stalls (I acknowledge that a significant amount of the costs are related to the Innovation Centre).
4. $35.4M would pay for a lot of transit. Assuming 18,000 seats, $3.60/trip, and 2 trips per game, 41 home games per season (not accounting for pre-season games, playoffs, non-Flames events, or increased transit prices), $35.4M could pay for free transit for every Flames fan for 13+ season. $35.4M could also pay for a lot of shuttle buses to existing parking lots on game day. There are pro sports teams that have free transit and shuttles as part of their tickets.
5. The only good justification for the parkade is for the Community Arena, but how much will people who use the community arena pay for parking? Also, let’s call it what it is, a training facility for the Flames and CSEC.
6. Burying the Parkade creates more area for plaza space. I’d rather see 200 stalls buried (mostly for players and staff on game nights, and community arena participants) than a 300-500 stall Parkade.above ground for the same cost.
 
Duck Lightning said:
The last plan definitely didn't have much space for a ramp underground but the new plan should have more than enough space underground for a sizable ramp. In fact maybe a larger and deeper hole is one of the reasons the arena has so much additional money being dumped into it this time around.
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The site is 40% larger. That's why the cost is higher.
 
adamyyc said:
1. As noted by Duck Lightning, the site (now 10 ac) is larger (~40%) than it was previously. I would think there should now be room for a ramp (Edmonton buried it’s parking on a smaller site). There may be other constraints I’m not aware of (cost probably being the main driver), but space doesn’t seem like one anymore.
2. How many parking stalls does $35.4M buy? I don’t think we know the answer to this yet, but I believe someone on the forum counted the number of stalls in the last design and it was 190. It looks like the new parkade area will be larger, but I’d say best case scenario, the Parkade has 1,000 spaces at ~$35k/stall. More realistically, the Parkade probably has 300 - 500 stalls for a significantly higher price per stall.
3. There is a significant amount of parking within a 10 minute walk of the event centre, including Platform which cost $80M for 509 stalls (I acknowledge that a significant amount of the costs are related to the Innovation Centre).
4. $35.4M would pay for a lot of transit. Assuming 18,000 seats, $3.60/trip, and 2 trips per game, 41 home games per season (not accounting for pre-season games, playoffs, non-Flames events, or increased transit prices), $35.4M could pay for free transit for every Flames fan for 13+ season. $35.4M could also pay for a lot of shuttle buses to existing parking lots on game day. There are pro sports teams that have free transit and shuttles as part of their tickets.
5. The only good justification for the parkade is for the Community Arena, but how much will people who use the community arena pay for parking? Also, let’s call it what it is, a training facility for the Flames and CSEC.
6. Burying the Parkade creates more area for plaza space. I’d rather see 200 stalls buried (mostly for players and staff on game nights, and community arena participants) than a 300-500 stall Parkade.above ground for the same cost.
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1. There was a ramp before, they just rotated that end 90*, the rink can still only be one story down, simply isn't the "runway" for a longer ramp at that end. Extra space on the sides doesnt help that problem. Promoter trucks cant turn inside, so its gotta be straight in straight out
3. if the saddledome has a convenient parkade for players/staff/premium, the new one will. you're not going to make the experience worse for the ones bankrolling a new facility. just move on, they do this everywhere
4. C trains are already packed, yet tons still drive because they have to, for many reasons. Building a new rink in the same location isnt going to make people change....they just wont go
5. how far do you expect kids to walk with equipment, if this area develops the way we hope it does? CSEC might use it for 6 hours in am/afternoon, when everyone else is at school/work
6. its actually the opposite. IF you bury a parkade (cant combine with event level, not enough room), event level moves to street level (edmonton), which means everyone has to be brought UP to the concourse. more stairs, escalators, ect....street retail disappears because you need space for storage/dressing rooms/loading. For anyone thats been to edmonton, the plaza across street is great...but Rogers itself is horrible for street presence. Entire south wall on 104th is the oilers locker room
 
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