News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 6.2K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 32K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 3.1K     0 

darwink

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
8,713
^ It was a joke. There is literally no reason to do a commuter rail fantasy map besides station locations
 

Oddball

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
1,131
Reaction score
1,320
^ It was a joke. There is literally no reason to do a commuter rail fantasy map besides station locations

I recognized the map and assumed that was the case. The point being that "Anywhere with an existing rail connection is a valid commuter rail destination."
 

hollahollaholla

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
31
Reaction score
30
^ It was a joke. There is literally no reason to do a commuter rail fantasy map besides station locations

Ah my bad I'm new here and don't often get the subtleties of sarcasm through words. Regardless knowing where tracks are is good but routing and lines can always be changed. It's nice to see where different people have different visions.
 
Last edited:

WildcatOil

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
1
Reaction score
4
20181024_114534.jpg

I know I'm rather late to the thread here, but I started doing this in Edmonton a few years ago and went for it again when I moved to Calgary this summer.

Red Line is as is, Green Line is as planned, Blue Line is as is with an extension to Cross Iron Mills.

Pink Line goes from East Hills to Olympic Park going down International Ave, through Downtown and passed Foothills & Alberta Children's Hospital.

Purple Line fills in the remaining corners of the city going from South of the Glenmore Reservoir to Heritage Park, Rocky View, Mount Royal and Downtown and then can be extended to the South East.

Gold Line is what links my former city to my current city. A high speed real line through the CalEd Corridor from Edmonton, to the Edmonton Airport, to Red Deer, to the Calgary Airport, to Downtown Calgary and then eventually out to Banff. Once in place additional lines can be added to the route stopping off a smaller centres along the way. This connects the corridor and gives tourist an easy way to fly into Calgary and get to Banff.

The High-speed rail line would also eliminate a need for a spur off of the Blue or Green Lines to the Airport as it would be a one stop link from Airport to the main station downtown.

I don't have any circle routes but I envision MAX routes connecting the outer reaches of each limb of the CTrain.

As all lines converge downtown I envision a large European style station South of the Calgary Tower. Where transfers can be made between all lines and the High Speed rail. Platforms to stories underground with retail space above them and connections to the Core Shopping Area and 7th Ave.
 

Attachments

  • 20181024_114534.jpg
    20181024_114534.jpg
    359.6 KB · Views: 1,030
Last edited:

AccUnit

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
159
Reaction score
352
City:
Calgary
I like the pink line because both the international Ave and west 16 Ave corridors could increase density in big way with addition of train service.
 

jhappy77

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 14, 2022
Messages
52
Reaction score
232
I've been working on this map for a while. It's a plan for a complete overhaul of CT, focused on a grid of fast, high frequency bus routes.

large_png_with_stations.png



I also have a WIP 67-page long report on it here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SyxgfXDGrWfLdb-O2y3Dr1Dh2Pc6roHdbGsgMLN4z3Q/edit?usp=sharing
I want your feedback! How would you change the routes? Anything I missed?

Additionally, I'm going to make a version with no infills/extensions to the existing LRTs, no gondola or airport people mover, and no green line built past Shepard or Aurora to show how we could build this quickly and as cheaply as possible. If the Green and Blue lines didn't extend North, how would you redesign the bus routes in the far Northeast past Saddletowne and Aurora?

I'll be reposting this to reddit for a wider audience after a first round of revisions, so please don't repost this anywhere until then. Hope you enjoy! :)
 

darwink

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
8,713
Awesome! Always cool to see.

Here is some work I did that might help you think about this a bit more. All the numbers are sourced from city documents, and some are very rough estimates, as noted in comments. a key one to look at how much service might cost is the max teal extension - Operating costs of a Max service are about $1 million a KM. Of course, costs can be recovered elsewhere for a big change like this, but it gets into the old transit fight between coverage and frequency.

ProjectProject TypeTripsNet Op CostsCapital CostsNPV 3.05% $ per incremental Trip
(lower is better)
Comments
Beddington to North PointeGreen Line LRT11500$0$0$0Screened out: improbable estimate; dependent on other unplanned segment
96 Ave to North PointeGreen Line LRT6000$1$0$3,246Screened out: improbable estimate; dependent on other unplanned segment
MAX Purple/17 Ave SE - 52 St E to 84 St SEBRT3300$0$43$11,850Selected: Serves Developing Communities, Low Relative Cost, Leverages Existing Infrastructure
52 Street E BRT -Saddletowne to SetonBRT20500$15$60$16,796Selected: Connects Communities to Jobs, Connects MAX Orange, Green Line and Blue Line, Low Relative Cost, Leverages Existing Infrastructure
40 Ave to 64 AveGreen Line LRT19000$1$300$16,814Screened out: dependent on other unplanned segment
Route 305 WestBRT6700$7$30$25,696Selected: Low Relative Cost
NW-HUB / West Campus MobilityBRT4220$5$22$29,672Selected: Alternative Option Examined (BRT Orange realignment to Lions Park)
162 Ave BRT - Somerset Bridlewood Station to ProvidenceBRT6500$6$95$32,592Screened out: Needs additional study, beyond 2030
Red Line S - Extension to 210 Ave SLRT14700$9$341$35,518Screened out: Needs additional study, beyond 2030
Shaganappi HOV - Bowness Road to Stoney TrailHOV/BRT8000$6$179$37,224Screened out: Needs additional study
16 Ave N to 64 Ave NGreen Line LRT26900$8$850$37,390Selected: Most cost efficient Green Line extension; serves Bus transfer station at 64th
16 Avenue N to North PointeGreen Line LRT42300$6$1,500$38,223Screened out: improbable estimate
North Regional Context Study/144 Ave N BRT - Tuscany to Nose CreekBRT10800$21$42$42,477Screened out: Needs additional study, beyond 2030
16 Ave N to 96 Ave NGreen Line LRT36300$5$1,500$44,005Screened out: 2nd best Green Line Project: improbable estimate
MAX Purple/17 Ave SE - 84 St E to City LimitsBRT2200$2$71$45,551Screened out: beyond 2030
Blue Line NE - 88 Ave to 128 Ave NELRT9700$2$405$46,370Screened out: dependent on other unplanned segment, beyond 2030
Westbrook to MRU StreetcarStreetcar9400$9$292$50,331Screened in: Additional study ordered to examine alternatives including routes which could serve Currie Barracks neighbourhood and Marda Loop; no commitment for construction due to need for additional study
Blue Line NE -Saddletowne to 88 Ave NELRT3500$1$158$50,707Selected: Serves Developing Communities, Low Relative Cost, Leverages Existing Infrastructure
16 Avenue N to BeddingtonGreen Line LRT30800$6$1,500$52,495Screened out: improbable estimate
Blue Line NE - 128 Ave to Stonegate NELRT3700$2$160$55,875Screened out: dependent on other unplanned segment, beyond 2030
Airport Transit Connector – Blue Line to AirportLRT13000$7$600$56,340Screened out: beyond 2030
MAX Purple/17 Ave SE -Blackfoot Truck Stop to Downtown/Green LineBRT1980-$2$156$62,067Screened out: beyond 2030, wait for Green Line completion
16 Avenue N to 40 Avenue N and Shepard to Auburn Bay/MahoganyGreen Line LRT15200$5$850$62,327Screened out: doesn't reach 64th Ave Transfer Station
64 Ave to 96 AveGreen Line LRT9400-$3$650$62,934Screened out: dependent on other unplanned segment, beyond 2030
Shepard to McKenzie TowneGreen Line LRT4200-$3$325$63,471Selected: Best Green Line South extension; serves communities
Auburn Bay/Mahogany to SetonGreen Line LRT5300$2$300$63,953Screened out: dependent on other unplanned segment, beyond 2030
Max Teal/South Crosstown BRT - Extension to 68 St EBRT1500$5$7$64,121Selected: Low relative cost, low upfront costs mean if project fails to meet ridership expectations, project can be reexamined, Connects Greenline, and 52nd St E BRT, generating benefits far beyond the project in isolation, which is what is projected in this project screen
Shepard to SetonGreen Line LRT12600-$1$850$65,915Screened out: too high of a budget for too low of ridership against competing projects; beyond 2030
Shepard to Auburn Bay/MahoganyGreen Line LRT7300-$3$550$67,339Screened out: too high of a budget for too low of ridership against competing projects; beyond 2030
Airport Transit Connector – Green Line to AirportLRT9500-$3$750$72,388Screened out: dependent on other unplanned segment, beyond 2030
McKenzie Towne to Auburn Bay/MahoganyGreen Line LRT3100$0$225$72,581Screened out: too high of a budget for too low of ridership against competing projects; beyond 2030
16 Avenue N to 40 Ave NGreen Line LRT7900$7$550$86,876Screened out: high cost per rider due to commuity stations only
64 Ave to BeddingtonGreen Line LRT3900-$2$650$156,680Screened out: dependent on other unplanned segment, beyond 2030
Blue Line W – Extension to 85 St SWLRT1500$5$213$212,108Screened out: worst project financially
 
Last edited:

jhappy77

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 14, 2022
Messages
52
Reaction score
232
Awesome! Always cool to see.

Here is some work I did that might help you think about this a bit more. All the numbers are sourced from city documents, and some are very rough estimates, as noted in comments. a key one to look at how much service might cost is the max teal extension - Operating costs of a Max service are about $1 million a KM. Of course, costs can be recovered elsewhere for a big change like this, but it gets into the old transit fight between coverage and frequency.
~snippy snip ~~
Very cool, thanks! Was there a main source you used to compile that info or is it too split up? If you have a link that would be great as I could use it as a resource.

In my report I did a very rough analysis of comparing bus operating minutes in the deep SW from prepandemic times with my proposed network (including additional local buses which serve coverage goals). Crazily enough, they had very similar total operating minutes while my system offered far superior frequency along the main routes and serves a few additional neighborhoods/areas than the prepandemic network. The gains in efficiency you can make by adopting a superior geometry are pretty crazy.

My analysis is probably pretty wrong but it at least shows there's big potential here.

 

darwink

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
8,713
Very cool, thanks! Was there a main source you used to compile that info or is it too split up? If you have a link that would be great as I could use it as a resource.
All drawn from the below - some green line projects you had to do math as they didn't present all the phasing options as discreet projects. And the NPV is own work.
Distrib-PowerPoint-TT2019-0245.pdf
SPC on Transportation and Transit - November 17, 2020
Attach 2 - RAPP Evaluation.docx - Attach 2 - RAPP Report - TT2020-1289.pdf
PowerPoint Presentation - Attach 3 - RAPP - Project Summary Pages -TT2020-1289.pdf
Consolidated Green Line LRT Stage 1 Business Case - July ... https://www.calgary.ca › green-line › documents › g...
 

jhappy77

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 14, 2022
Messages
52
Reaction score
232
Hey folks! Back with an update on the map I made earlier.
1648011198325.png

This map tries to be pretty cost conscious in terms of the infrastructure investments it would require (outside of the Green Line North expansion ofc).
I've put a lot of work into the accompanying report: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...c6roHdbGsgMLN4z3Q/edit#heading=h.2lcyws1c3vqu
Notably, I did a full operating analysis which estimates the cost of operating the entirely redesigned citywide bus network, including coverage routes (to the best of my ability). You can peep that analysis inside the document, and in this spreadsheet. Hope you enjoy this, and always happy for any feedback! :)
 

darwink

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
8,713
I like it!

One thing that tempts me when thinking of projects like this is ‘quick win’ connectivity projects. Like where we could expropriate 3,4 houses to make a route much more direct by reconnecting a grid broken up by curvilinear neighbourhoods.

When trying to turn routes into lines and connect the grid, were there any places where it just gets messy and inefficient in your opinion?
 
Last edited:

jhappy77

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 14, 2022
Messages
52
Reaction score
232
When trying to turn routes into lines and connect the grid, were there any places where it just gets messy and inefficient in your opinion?
The main culprits of the "connecting the grid" challenges are the river valleys, big hills, the railway, and Deerfoot - meaning any connection across them would probably cost a lot of money to complete.

I included one such connection in the map - a bridge across 194 Ave S along the C94 route. It seems simple enough and cheap enough to do, and IIRC based on development maps you probably don't even need to expropriate any properties to complete the link with a narrow bus-only road.

Here's a list of other grid connections I considered but ruled out:
  • Edworthy Street crossing the bow river to Point McKay would allow for a route (the C5 in my map) to beeline it to the UofC area instead of detouring around Sarcee & Trans Canada, saving around 4 minutes per trip compared to the current route
  • The gap between the terminus of 85th Street SW and Chiila Rise next to COP is already mostly complete - it's only 300m apart - but the grade would be around 20% so switchbacks would be necessary. Probably not worth it considering the west ring road is right next to it
  • You could theoretically build a connection between a route going down 24 St SW (our current Max Yellow, this map's C2) at Bebo Grove to Evergreen but it would cut through the heart of Fish Creek Park which would probably be very unpopular. I think a better alternative for a future Max Yellow / C2 extension is to have it go down Stoney to 37 St SW where they're building Alpine Park.
  • I think RouteAhead also tentatively calls for a transit crossing across the Bow on 210 Ave SW but the area does not seem to be ready for it yet
  • You could probably connect McKenzie Towne Boulevard / Mt McKenzie way with Deer Run and 153 Ave SE across the Bow.
  • You could connect 130 Ave SE with Canyon Meadows Drive SE - but the route would need to cross Poplar Island which is pretty questionable. That said, 130 Ave SE is supposed to be the site of a future neighborhood main street east of Stoney Trail and will lead to some 'strategic growth areas' for new neighborhood developments
Ultimately, most of those connections would be pretty costly relative to their benefit, at least at the moment. You probably wouldn't want any traffic beyond buses using them either.

On the flipside, there's a different kind of project that could give transit a lot of benefit for a relatively cheap cost. A lot of neighborhoods lack pedestrian permeability, which makes it incredibly difficult to provide adequate coverage without loopy windy suburban routes. We could fix this problem by building more alleywalks between houses, allowing for more direct pedestrian/bike routes between transit stops and houses. It probably wouldn't even be unpopular - you could expropriate the land around a fence on a property line, but then pay for new fences around the new alleywalk for both properties impacted. That would enable transit routes to take faster, more direct routes, like the ones I included in the map.
 

Top