CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
I was thinking is the nexen building being empty not a huge contributor to the west part of downtown's vacancy rate? When a large building has 100% vacancy surely that has to weigh on the numbers?
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- Thread starter Alex_YYC
- Start date
ByeByeBaby
Active Member
Nexen is 600K sq ft, so about 5% of the total downtown vacancy. I don't know how much of the office space is in what they consider the west end, but I think it's likely 15-25% of the total space; at those rates, Nexen would be 20%-12% of west end vacancy, respectively.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
My high-level math says without Nexen the west side wouldn't be any worse off than the rest of downtown. Give or take a few percentage points.
ByeByeBaby
Active Member
I think that only works if you assume the west end is a quite small portion of the total downtown office space, on the order of 5%.
Here's the math assuming 10% in west end:
45M sq ft total * 0.1 pct in west end = 4.5M sq ft in west end
4.5 M * 0.44 vacancy rate =1.98M sq ft vacant
West end excluding Nexen: (1.98-0.6 = 1.38 M sq ft vacant) / (4.5-0.6 = 3.9M sq ft total) = 35.4% vacancy
At 5%:
45*0.05 = 2.25 total space; 2.25*0.44 = 0.99 vacant
(0.99-0.6=0.39) / (2.25-0.6=1.65) = 23.6%, comparable to the rest of downtown.
(At 15% of the market, vacancy ex Nexen is 38.5%, and at 20% it's 40%.)
I don't know how much they consider the west end to be, but 5% seems low; my guess would be 15%. And of course, the vacancy rate anywhere else would be better if you ignored the single worst building in it.
It makes sense that even ex Nexen the west end would have higher vacancy rates; it has a lot of class B and C buildings, and I don't think any class AA ones.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
I found the end of this article interesting... And makes a great point:
livewirecalgary.com
For context:
Justin Simaluk and his wife have lived in Calgary’s inner city for five years, but the recent birth of their child means they are already worried about where their child will go to school.
Simaluk said he got a letter from the Calgary Board of Education (CBE) last year that warned them that their neighbourhood school is now full and new Kindergarten to Grade 6 kids will be overflowed.
In an online update posted in September 2023, Connaught School administration said overflowed students will now have to attend Wildwood School because Ramsay School and Earl Grey School have reached their capacity and can’t accommodate additional overflow students.
For Simaluk’s family, that means a 20-minute drive or a bus ride that will take more than 30 minutes.
The point I found interesting:
Simaluk is hoping the city, the CBE and the province will also acknowledge that many couples want to raise their families in inner-city neighbourhoods. He said the CBE needs to be more communicative with families living in neighbourhoods with overflow schools, and the city needs to have a proper census to know where families are living.
“I don’t think a lot of people look at the Beltline as a residential neighbourhood, even though it’s one of the most populated and dense residential neighborhoods in the city,” he said.
“If the city wants people to adopt higher density living and living more sustainably, then we have to go beyond services like a bar or restaurant. We need to start providing base-level services like schools and childcare and the bare minimum that we need to live in Canada.
“If you want families to be moving and living like this, you need to support families.”
So... when is the province paying to convert a downtown west-end/Beltline office to a school?
Calgary parents face capacity issues at schools as student enrolment reaches record levels - LiveWire Calgary
With the new school year starting in two weeks, the Calgary Board of Education is looking for ways to deal with record levels of student population growth throughout the next 10 years. Justin Simaluk and his wife have lived in Calgary’s inner city for five years, but the recent birth of their...
livewirecalgary.com
For context:
Justin Simaluk and his wife have lived in Calgary’s inner city for five years, but the recent birth of their child means they are already worried about where their child will go to school.
Simaluk said he got a letter from the Calgary Board of Education (CBE) last year that warned them that their neighbourhood school is now full and new Kindergarten to Grade 6 kids will be overflowed.
In an online update posted in September 2023, Connaught School administration said overflowed students will now have to attend Wildwood School because Ramsay School and Earl Grey School have reached their capacity and can’t accommodate additional overflow students.
For Simaluk’s family, that means a 20-minute drive or a bus ride that will take more than 30 minutes.
The point I found interesting:
Simaluk is hoping the city, the CBE and the province will also acknowledge that many couples want to raise their families in inner-city neighbourhoods. He said the CBE needs to be more communicative with families living in neighbourhoods with overflow schools, and the city needs to have a proper census to know where families are living.
“I don’t think a lot of people look at the Beltline as a residential neighbourhood, even though it’s one of the most populated and dense residential neighborhoods in the city,” he said.
“If the city wants people to adopt higher density living and living more sustainably, then we have to go beyond services like a bar or restaurant. We need to start providing base-level services like schools and childcare and the bare minimum that we need to live in Canada.
“If you want families to be moving and living like this, you need to support families.”
So... when is the province paying to convert a downtown west-end/Beltline office to a school?
MichaelS
Senior Member
I can strongly sympathize with the people in that article. We left the dowtown west end 3 years ago for a number of reasons, but definitely in the top 3 was a concern where our then 4 year old son would go to school.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
Are there any small empty buildings in the area that could be converted to a school?
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
What is the old Beltline pool building like? Way too small though.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
Just thinking of something small that can take some extra students until schools can be expanded or built. However, given our governments track record with schools, temporary would mean like 30 years...
It's probably been 25 years since I was in the Beltline pool, but IIRC, it seems to be not well suited for classrooms...
It's probably been 25 years since I was in the Beltline pool, but IIRC, it seems to be not well suited for classrooms...
MichaelS
Senior Member
One challenge is elementary schools need fields/playgrounds. Maybe a rooftop could be converted to outdoor space to make it work, but hard to find an existing building that has lots of room for kids to play outside.
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Yep, playgrounds and gymnasiums would be a challenge, otherwise converting a small office building might be feasible.
DougB
Active Member
I did second grade at the MacDougall School dt. At the time, the entire lot was paved and called a playground. Times were different as all kids walked to school through dt.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
Using this image (the interactive map is no longer active) from a 6+ year-old CBC article about office vacancy, I'll assume the empty buildings are likely not much more full.
Near the Beltline I see Fina across from Nexen but we know that is already a conversion that is lined up.
Across the street from that though there's this. Its advantage is you cross 8th Ave and you have Century Gardens as a potential run around spot for the kids. I think this is probably best suited as a Middle School/Junior High though.
You could put a sports court or mini field on the roof.
In the Beltline, what about this building, why can't it be a permanent school?
It has some out door space you could fence off and build a park, and you could do a very small field or sports court on the roof.
Near the Beltline I see Fina across from Nexen but we know that is already a conversion that is lined up.
Across the street from that though there's this. Its advantage is you cross 8th Ave and you have Century Gardens as a potential run around spot for the kids. I think this is probably best suited as a Middle School/Junior High though.
You could put a sports court or mini field on the roof.
In the Beltline, what about this building, why can't it be a permanent school?
It has some out door space you could fence off and build a park, and you could do a very small field or sports court on the roof.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
Not sure how I missed this in my post. What is happening with the old CBE building downtown, couldn't that be converted to a school? It obviously need to be taken back to the studs but there's also land available on the west of the site. It isn't a short term fix but long term a school here makes sense. Also how bad is the Teacher's Union at making education issues news stories?
UrbanWarrior
Senior Member
The CBE building would be a great site for a school. Demo that smaller building on the west side and build a new one and have a field going across the roofs of both. Might even be enough space on the northeast corner of the existing building for a playground.