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harry_fine

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Hello All

I wanted to get the thinking and experience of those who live in a condo and either have a private facebook group, or administer a private facebook group on behalf of the residents. By private, I mean not sanctioned by or operated on behalf of the condo corporation by the PM.

We've had one at my building since the building was built. I started the group, and am the admin. We have about 75% of the owners/tenants as members.

In our group we talk about neighbourhood events, restaurants, building policies, we help each other if someone needs to borrow a screwdriver, needs help in operating their microwave, or needs help lifting something out of their car. We try to keep the garbage room issues solved by educating those “less inclined” to be sensitive to the needs of others. If there is noise, a stray cigarette butt, we let the others know so that perhaps they can see if one of their occupants (a son or daughter on a Saturday night) are the source of the problem. We talk about policy ideas for the building, and suggestions to improve things. We pass on interesting articles on condo life. We give recommendations of cleaners, plumbers, electricians etc. It’s a great group.

At times we do get critical of the Board’s decisions and management, but I don’t let people slander others, and I try to make sure there is balance. Occasionally I have to remove a post, and I warn the people. I am clear on the Facebook group that it is NOT an official way to communicate with the Board or management. In other words, the Facebook group is NOT anti-management. It’s a tool to enhance our living experience and form a sense of community in this small, boutique building.

I’ve never asked the Board or property manager to endorse or support the Facebook group, as that’s not their job. The group is not an official vehicle of the Board or management. Yet, I think it serves all our purposes if new people who move in get the chance to join. The Board and PM have cautiously decided we can post a flyer by the mail room letting people know that we exist, and how to join the group. We have a disclaimer on the flyer that it is not sanctioned by the Board or PM or Corporation.

The Board refuses to allow us to slip them under the doors for new occupants, or to include them as part of a new resident's package. I can understand the Board not wanting to include it, as they don't want to attract any liability for slander etc. So we are stuck with watching when new people move in, and slipping the single page flyer under the door.

However, the PM says that putting anything under the doors is against the Rules. I've read the Rules and Declaration. The quiet enjoyment clause in the Corporation's Rules provides guidance on avoiding causing a “nuisance”, but that nuisance must have the characteristics that it would disturb the comfort of occupants. Surely the Condominium Authority Tribunal would not consider the one-time dropping of a flyer under the door to have that potential. I see it as no more intrusive than having an owner contact other owners for the purpose of calling a members’ meeting, a meeting to dispute a recently passed rule etc., or for that matter handing out a flyer to a newcomer in the elevator. On balance, the benefit to the owner far outweighs any potential to cause a nuisance. If I was to take the risk and distribute the flyer, the existing group members has volunteers from each floor who have agreed to provide them without need of visiting floors other than their own, keeping wandering between floors to a minimum.

So first, thanks for reading, I know this was long. What do you think? Have you heard of similar situations or are you aware of any Court decisions? I couldn't find any. What do you think is fair?
 
I am on Board in my building and though we do not have a Facebook group in our building (we are a small building and have a website and monthly e-newsletter) I doubt our Board would object to one (and really could not forbid or control it anyway). In our building we have a couple of 'public' notice boards where any resident can post info of interest to others. These may not be commercial things but tend to be ads for furniture for sale, ideas about a group going to do x etc etc. We actually have a Rule about it: "No one shall use the Corporation’s bulletin boards except for the posting of information concerning Resident activities or other Resident information." I would say that a Facebook Group that was to do with the building would be allowed under this. I am not sure we would allow things to be pushed under Unit doors (or more likely left on floor outside a Unit) but making the info available seems reasonable. (Owners may not want to have flyers sent to their Units and leaving them outside a Unit is unsightly and could show a Unit was empty.) You seem to be making useful info available that here would be distributed by the Board but I can see that if they allow you to do this within the building what happens if another group appears who want to be less constructive?
 
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Flyers would be out in our building, although our hard copy newsletter is delivered door-to-door.

We have three bulletin boards for the use of owners.

Personally, as president, i would have no problem including the page in our Welcome Package, with a disclaimer stating that it is not administered or curated by the corporation, that it is not the voice of the corporation, and that the corporation takes no responsibility for it. In return, I would ask you harry_fine to put that disclaimer on the FB page... and I would expect you to maintain decorum because, you betcha, the instant anything remotely libelous of anybody in the condo gets posted, both you and the originating poster will get a notice of libel.
 
I've experienced it in one of the property/condo that I bought. Other than the homeowners facebook page or group, there is this one that is from the homeowners organization or association. I think some other property or development have such because of the fact that people believe that their opinions counted and it needed to be in a group. Just like local community, that kind of setup is really nice. But sometimes, it isnt for some members. In the end, being in a facebook group could be a good thing to have a healthy discussion for the long run.
___________________
Real Estate Philippines
 
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Our residents' group used word-of-mouth to alert other residents about our group's existence.

Question: Does anybody have any experience with their condo board stopping a fb group from using the building name?
eg XXXX Residents' Group

If they can indeed issue a cease & desist, I wonder if this also applies to using the street address as the group name.
eg 533 Richmond Residents' Group

Thanks all
✌️❤️
 
The sister building to where I used to live had a FB group shut down for using the name. The group was a dumpster fire full of rumours and complainers. When I started ours, I checked with the developer first about how to name it. I’be done a lot of social media and online discussion work over the years and don’t allow dumpster fires. 😉
 
Hi PinkLucy,
Thank you for your reply.

Oh I can assure you the residents' group is a tightly-run ship, and after a few behaviour-modification warnings to members in our first year, essentially all online behaviour is the model of group forum decorum citywide! haha

We are only attempting to best prepare for unexpected board motions in the event that the board no longer wish for us to use the building's name.
I was surprised to hear from a board member that even the street address is owned by the corp, which seems like a dubious claim, hence my inquiry here.
 
If you include something like residents group or unofficial in the name, that may help. In the situation above, it was definitely more of an issue of unverified information and defamation and so on, and the developer wanted to protect their name.

Can you discuss with the board the purpose and expectations of the group and ask them to note in the minutes that they are ok with it? It really can be a valuable tool when used properly (I.e. not just a venue for mud slinging and so on)
 
Yes, our group is XXXXX Residents' Group, and I've also received confirmation that the current board's consent was in fact included in the minutes.

Correct, our group is not the norm, and in fact our members are probably apprehensive about posting anything akin to mud. So that's not an issue. Admin has proven itself to be taken seriously wrt behaviour. It has proven a valuable tool, not just for the building but for the community through fundraisers etc.

We are just gaming-out all possible scenarios in the event that the day comes when the board no longer wishes us to use the building name, or even the street address (!).

If I'm able to find an answer re street-address use, in lieu of the condo building name, I'll update this thread.
 
Yes, our group is XXXXX Residents' Group, and I've also received confirmation that the current board's consent was in fact included in the minutes.

Correct, our group is not the norm, and in fact our members are probably apprehensive about posting anything akin to mud. So that's not an issue. Admin has proven itself to be taken seriously wrt behaviour. It has proven a valuable tool, not just for the building but for the community through fundraisers etc.

We are just gaming-out all possible scenarios in the event that the day comes when the board no longer wishes us to use the building name, or even the street address (!).

If I'm able to find an answer re street-address use, in lieu of the condo building name, I'll update this thread.
I find it hard to believe that a Board could stop someone from using a street address as a FB Group name "Friends of 123 Main Street"" (nor why using the Condo # would be a problem as long as the Group made it clear on FB ,and maybe on the Group name, that they were an unofficial group.)

I have been on the Board of our condo for longer than I care to admit and we do not use FB nor has anyone shown signs of wanting to start such a group but if someone did I bet that we would like the idea and actually try to attract them to run for the Board. It's hard to find good Directors and if someone is prepared to moderate a FB Group I bet they are 'Director material".
 
I find it hard to believe that a Board could stop someone from using a street address as a FB Group name "Friends of 123 Main Street"" (nor why using the Condo # would be a problem as long as the Group made it clear on FB ,and maybe on the Group name, that they were an unofficial group.)

I have been on the Board of our condo for longer than I care to admit and we do not use FB nor has anyone shown signs of wanting to start such a group but if someone did I bet that we would like the idea and actually try to attract them to run for the Board. It's hard to find good Directors and if someone is prepared to moderate a FB Group I bet they are 'Director material".

Thanks for weighing in, DSC.
So, I might as well clarify that I am in fact sole admin to this residents' group to which I'm referring.
This is why I'm able to make assurances about the squeaky clean behaviour of our members.
Truth be told, I could probably loosen up on the rules-adherence, but in my experience it's better to be tight at the beginning, than to try to regain control after you've allowed it to go sideways.

I concur with your doubts that the corp could prohibit use of the street address.
To re-state, our current FB group name is "(BuildingName) Residents' Group" and our existence has the consent of the board.

I am in regular communication with our board, and prior to their election was encouraged to run. Perhaps in the future, but not yet.

What got my spidey-senses tingling was during a recent chat with the board prez.
We are each other's first friend in this new construction, but lately I feel this individual is irrationally playing Survivor with me, and I no longer trust them, as we have opposing positions on important building matters that are proving extremely difficult to reconcile, and they have been reluctant to discus any of my previous building concerns that ostensibly are topics they wish to avoid.
Most notably matters regarding the PM, on which I've documented several code-of-ethics, health-and-safety, and even Ontario Human Rights violations.
This PM is the Teflon-don, it seems. 😔
I need to proceed carefully and I'm not pulling the trigger on anything until I know I have every T crossed, because this PM has the tacit approval of the board, and said board are unaware that I have documented proof of my claims. Further, they have shown no real interest in hearing what I have to share.

So!....because I know the day will come when I present my findings to the CMRAO ( which will get the PM disciplined, fined, removed, or licence revoked), I'm preparing for the blowback, which would include, but not limited to, attempting to close my residents' group or prohibit use of the building name or address in any future incarnation of said group.

As I've not been an active member on UrbanToronto (member since 2011 but have not posted until today lol), once I'm given posting privileges I'll likely start my own thread instead of hijacking the OP, or just throw up the story on reddit for feedback/advice.

In any event, this is why I was seeking to understand if my current fb group name "(BuildingName) Residents' Group" is prohibit-able,
and if so, would my backup plan group name "(##StreetName) Residents' Group" suffer a similar fate, because during a previous convo (before they became prez) this individual claimed to have observed an instance where a fb group was not even allowed to use the street name to identify the group. I anticipate they will employ this tactic with me.

It's all very frustrating, but mostly sad, because I'm trying to protect this building, the residents, and our equity, but the silence of the board is speaking volumes.

Thanks all!
✌️❤️
 
Thanks for weighing in, DSC.
So, I might as well clarify that I am in fact sole admin to this residents' group to which I'm referring.
This is why I'm able to make assurances about the squeaky clean behaviour of our members.
Truth be told, I could probably loosen up on the rules-adherence, but in my experience it's better to be tight at the beginning, than to try to regain control after you've allowed it to go sideways.

I concur with your doubts that the corp could prohibit use of the street address.
To re-state, our current FB group name is "(BuildingName) Residents' Group" and our existence has the consent of the board.

I am in regular communication with our board, and prior to their election was encouraged to run. Perhaps in the future, but not yet.

What got my spidey-senses tingling was during a recent chat with the board prez.
We are each other's first friend in this new construction, but lately I feel this individual is irrationally playing Survivor with me, and I no longer trust them, as we have opposing positions on important building matters that are proving extremely difficult to reconcile, and they have been reluctant to discus any of my previous building concerns that ostensibly are topics they wish to avoid.
Most notably matters regarding the PM, on which I've documented several code-of-ethics, health-and-safety, and even Ontario Human Rights violations.
This PM is the Teflon-don, it seems. 😔
I need to proceed carefully and I'm not pulling the trigger on anything until I know I have every T crossed, because this PM has the tacit approval of the board, and said board are unaware that I have documented proof of my claims. Further, they have shown no real interest in hearing what I have to share.

So!....because I know the day will come when I present my findings to the CMRAO ( which will get the PM disciplined, fined, removed, or licence revoked), I'm preparing for the blowback, which would include, but not limited to, attempting to close my residents' group or prohibit use of the building name or address in any future incarnation of said group.

As I've not been an active member on UrbanToronto (member since 2011 but have not posted until today lol), once I'm given posting privileges I'll likely start my own thread instead of hijacking the OP, or just throw up the story on reddit for feedback/advice.

In any event, this is why I was seeking to understand if my current fb group name "(BuildingName) Residents' Group" is prohibit-able,
and if so, would my backup plan group name "(##StreetName) Residents' Group" suffer a similar fate, because during a previous convo (before they became prez) this individual claimed to have observed an instance where a fb group was not even allowed to use the street name to identify the group. I anticipate they will employ this tactic with me.

It's all very frustrating, but mostly sad, because I'm trying to protect this building, the residents, and our equity, but the silence of the board is speaking volumes.

Thanks all!
✌️❤️
I assume you know that you can make requests for almost all Corporation records and the Board has to supply them If they don't do so within the fairly tight time limits you can go to the Condo Authority fairly easily and cheaply. Managers report to the Board and though some Boards allow Managers to do what they want, at the end of the day the Board are responsible. If you have proof your PM has gone rogue the first step should really be to show it to your Board and ask them what they intend to do. Only if they fail to take suitable action would I go to the CMRAO but ..... At the end of the day you and the Board need to live together so maybe best to give them the opportunity of "doing their duty" without being forced to do so by the CAO or CMRAO.
 
I assume you know that you can make requests for almost all Corporation records and the Board has to supply them If they don't do so within the fairly tight time limits you can go to the Condo Authority fairly easily and cheaply. Managers report to the Board and though some Boards allow Managers to do what they want, at the end of the day the Board are responsible. If you have proof your PM has gone rogue the first step should really be to show it to your Board and ask them what they intend to do. Only if they fail to take suitable action would I go to the CMRAO but ..... At the end of the day you and the Board need to live together so maybe best to give them the opportunity of "doing their duty" without being forced to do so by the CAO or CMRAO.

Your point is well-taken, and would normally be my logical first step.
I’m very much a people-person, well-liked (I think ha) and value the importance of relationships.
The problem is that I’ve opened the door to a discussion on several occasions and the prez and two other directors have not accepted my invitation.

I ask myself “why?”
And in light of prior questions/complaints regarding this PM from many other residents which went ignored my concern is that, for reasons known only to themselves, the board wants to keep this PM and might act to suppress evidence.

Also, this board is very green.
Also, this PM recognizes how inexperienced this board is, and has been successful at hiding their utter contempt for the board, and successful at convincing the board that the PM is a fond ally of theirs.

So with my tinfoil hat firmly in place, I have to consider the possibility that the board will synthesize alternate explanations or create counterpoints or discredit my documentation in order to keep this person as PM. Part of my documentation involves eye witnesses, and testimonials (and other evidence) from people who would not want their identities known to the board nor PM until this PM is removed. This makes my task highly complex, as I have innocent people to consider.

I recognize that good PMs are a rare, valued asset. Perhaps this one is “good enough” in their eyes and they fear who we might get as a replacement. That would be my fear too if I were a director.
I acknowledge their tough spot, but I also believe that character matters in a PM; being a decent human being matters, not including violations from clear-cut to questionable of which there are many and varied.
So I would have no qualms jettisoning this PM.

But to address your point directly, yes I’m very aware that I can request condo docs from the board but given my suspicions I don’t want to tip my hand or give them an opportunity to corrupt or falsely-invalidate my evidence or source of evidence. Sorry I have to be mindful of the details I post.
Basically they’ve given me some reason to distrust them.

I’m not concerned about having to still live with them, bec at the end of the day I can always explain to them that I didn’t initially present everything to them bec they didn’t respond to any of my pleas for a hard conversation about their PM, and it was only after their rejections of my invitations that I was left to eventually (when it’s safe) take my case to the CMRAO.

The entire situation is frustrating and massively stressful. Mostly bec I feel I can’t tip my hand until I can do so without triggering harm/retaliation on certain witnesses who are particularly vulnerable to this PM. It was a promise I made to them.
So I have to hang tight and wait for the PM to become complacent. I’ll also need a bit of luck.
It’s the Teflon-don, after all.
 
Your point is well-taken, and would normally be my logical first step.
I’m very much a people-person, well-liked (I think ha) and value the importance of relationships.
The problem is that I’ve opened the door to a discussion on several occasions and the prez and two other directors have not accepted my invitation.

I ask myself “why?”
And in light of prior questions/complaints regarding this PM from many other residents which went ignored my concern is that, for reasons known only to themselves, the board wants to keep this PM and might act to suppress evidence.

Also, this board is very green.
Also, this PM recognizes how inexperienced this board is, and has been successful at hiding their utter contempt for the board, and successful at convincing the board that the PM is a fond ally of theirs.

So with my tinfoil hat firmly in place, I have to consider the possibility that the board will synthesize alternate explanations or create counterpoints or discredit my documentation in order to keep this person as PM. Part of my documentation involves eye witnesses, and testimonials (and other evidence) from people who would not want their identities known to the board nor PM until this PM is removed. This makes my task highly complex, as I have innocent people to consider.

I recognize that good PMs are a rare, valued asset. Perhaps this one is “good enough” in their eyes and they fear who we might get as a replacement. That would be my fear too if I were a director.
I acknowledge their tough spot, but I also believe that character matters in a PM; being a decent human being matters, not including violations from clear-cut to questionable of which there are many and varied.
So I would have no qualms jettisoning this PM.

But to address your point directly, yes I’m very aware that I can request condo docs from the board but given my suspicions I don’t want to tip my hand or give them an opportunity to corrupt or falsely-invalidate my evidence or source of evidence. Sorry I have to be mindful of the details I post.
Basically they’ve given me some reason to distrust them.

I’m not concerned about having to still live with them, bec at the end of the day I can always explain to them that I didn’t initially present everything to them bec they didn’t respond to any of my pleas for a hard conversation about their PM, and it was only after their rejections of my invitations that I was left to eventually (when it’s safe) take my case to the CMRAO.

The entire situation is frustrating and massively stressful. Mostly bec I feel I can’t tip my hand until I can do so without triggering harm/retaliation on certain witnesses who are particularly vulnerable to this PM. It was a promise I made to them.
So I have to hang tight and wait for the PM to become complacent. I’ll also need a bit of luck.
It’s the Teflon-don, after all.
Sounds like a minefield, you MIGHT find it helpful to talk to another trusted owner or even a good condo lawyer.
 

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