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- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
ChazYEG
Senior Member
Please, tell me this wasn't sarcasm.
thommyjo
Senior Member
As a resident of West central, im very bullish on this part of the city, but we badly need a bike network and the LRT asap. With the majority of sprawl growth happening in the SW and W, thatll attract people to west central areas to stay close to friends rather than living farther east. I suspect we'll see more development and infill on the west than the east over the next decade because of this factor.
The mall is also our largest employment center outside of DT and UofA i believe, right? Might even be more than UofA. So connecting the west side to the mall is essential. Sadly the west also has more wealthy nimbys to deal with, so we'll see how they respond... (glenora, Crestwood, Parkview, Rio terrace
CplKlinger
Senior Member
thommyjo
Senior Member
"It's badly done for both bikes and cars, no question," Cartmell said. "We gotta do better than that."
What? What part of downtown is bad for cars or bikes???? 102ave? 100ave?
TAS
Senior Member
Vehicle traffic is slower along 100Ave and its adjacent streets for sure after the bike lanes went in. Although that was pre-pandemic. Lighter traffic now so times are likley faster again.
But if we are looking to reduce car trips, which environmentally is recommended, you want to speed up times for active and public transportation modes.
That's the premise behind Copenhagen's bike plan, at least at first. Curb the behaviour you don't want, driving, by making it less convenient than the behaviour you do want, active and public transportation.
Making driving more convenient (adding more lanes for example) always has the same result- encourages even more driving to the point things get more congested again. Now you're back where you started with worse environmental footprint and more costs (including providing space for parking) not to mention less healthy people. A friend shared some stats with me, sorry I can't find them, that showed Americans spend more time in their vehicles than they do outside - that was in relation to the negative effect on mental health that has (not to mention physical health).
thommyjo
Senior Member
As a suburban counciller, I presume he hears a lot of vague and uncommitted griping about bike lanes from constituents. Vague and uncommitted griping coming from him only seems natural.
jason403
Active Member
Where are usage numbers for the bike lanes published? I see in downtown, Oliver, and UofA there is some decent usage, but are these bike lanes being used in other parts of the city? I'm probably biased and think these are largely niche projects that are barely used, so wouldn't mind finding some information that is contrarian to my view.
CplKlinger
Senior Member
thommyjo
Senior Member
I mean...DT, oliver, UofA is basically the only bike infrastructure we have outside of shared use paths and the river valley haha. And they will be "niche" for a few more years, but biking is having a global heyday and we are still in the first 5 years of out bike network being built (with half of that time being covid/WFH). As downtown returns, offices reopen, universities get back to normal, etc, we'll see a big uptick. Even just the culture amongst young people. There's a desire to see real action on climate change/pollution. Bike technology is also improving, which I think will be key for edmonton with our seasonal challenges. A few big books, ted talks, and youtube channels have taken off the past few years, influencing millions. Cities across europe are straight up banning cars for city centres, which will build interest/awareness in NA, and as people travel, study abroad, work in other countries they will experience the beauty of car-lite/car-free cities/areas.
Then unique to edmonton, housing will go up+carbon tax, making young people more budget conscious than our province has had to be in the past. Our infill projects will attract young people to aging/mature areas that actually have bike infrastructure being built. So instead of lewis estates, terwillegar, meadows being where 20-35 year olds buy, more will be in ritchie, highlands, mcqueen, west jasper, strathcona. And then our downtown/core is just building up residentially. Thousands more living DT will 1) make driving horrible if they all try to drive, 2) make bike shops, bike parking, bike culture thrive as critical mass grows, 3) have the social effect of people doing what their friends do. Similar to sports like pickleball, climbing, spikeball, etc that have boomed in recent years, biking has a social effect I believe. 9 of my friends bought bikes last year because my wife and I bought centrally and started inviting friends to hit up parks and patios with us by bike. Then lastly, our transit improving will be big. Bikes pair well with transit. Transit can be for longer trips, bikes for shorter. Or transit on bad weather days, bike on nicer. But most of our city hasn't been well served. Once all the valley line opens, I bet we see a lot more people using bikes in tandem with transit.
I doubt we hit 30-40% biking ever in Edmonton, but I see no reason for 10-15% of trips not being by bike in the next decade or 2.
TAS
Senior Member
Love this - Edmonton stats referenced as well.
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cliffapotamus
Active Member
A fair thought at this point. IIRC, modal share of biking, according to CoE numbers is only around 1-2%. the link @CplKlinger shared is a great resource, (although i'm sure it's missing a bunch of counters, I know i've come across counters in the suburbs, but the map only shows them near the core; idk) and we know the counters don't catch most traffic, even on the lanes they're on, due to spacing. We don't catch any of the traffic in the Valley and ravines, which is where most riding happens recreationally (as well as a surprising amount of commuting, for those of us lucky enough to have the time in our day) nor do we have active counters on any of the SUPs in the suburbs. those are probably quiet, but they definitely see use and would fill out these usage numbers.
One number i've seen mentioned in documents attempting to account for this large blind-spot in the data estimates 50,000 bike trips a day in the summer. All-in. kids riding SUPs for fun, recreational riding, biking to store because it's sunny instead of driving etc.
right now it is kinda niche to bike. but it's doable, and i think there's more people riding out there than people think/see. expanding and improving our network will make riding more accessible, pleasant, and viable for people for any/all trips. In my eyes, it's a bit of a 'build it, and many more will come' thing.
I'll leave this here too. haven't seen the original source, so idk how credible this is, but I do agree that we actually have some good riding here in the city, at least when there's no snow!
thommyjo
Senior Member
Yeah, I'm interested on how stats will change with redevelopment in core areas and 15 minute communities.
We are a long way from bikes being a primary source, but I wonder if we can see a lot more people shift a certain percentage of rides. I started biking this past year and now use it for most errands, shopping, coffee, seeing friends centrally, etc. Car still needed for friends outside the henday and long trips. But 50% at least have become bike trips.
So if we see that sort of progress, that'll be huge. High school and uni students feels like massive potential. Downtown workers and residents of the core as well.
Just for context, even Montreal only has 3.6 percent cycling mode share. But top line numbers like that hide a lot. There are many central neighborhoods that have recieved investment into solid bike infrastructure that have like 5-20%. That seems like a decent success already, and that was back in 2016.
I imagine there are some neighborhoods like that in Edmonton (Strathcona, Garneau, maybe Oliver) where mode share is already 5-10%.