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sunnyside

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Mods please delete if this discussion already exists. As far as I am aware, Gil Penalosa, a planner running for mayor in Toronto has just announced his transit plan for the first time. Seems to constitute primarily BRT. Link to his plan is here: https://www.gilformayor.ca/fastlane_transit_plan

The plan seems to hinge on bus lanes for a variety of corridors, some replacing LRT. See below:

1664378940899.png
 

Railrunner

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Mods please delete if this discussion already exists. As far as I am aware, Gil Penalosa, a planner running for mayor in Toronto has just announced his transit plan for the first time. Seems to constitute primarily BRT. Link to his plan is here: https://www.gilformayor.ca/fastlane_transit_plan

The plan seems to hinge on bus lanes for a variety of corridors, some replacing LRT. See below:

View attachment 429425
I want to see his rail transit plans.
 

Cobra

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Realistic plan - I think the "incremental" part of building transit has been sorely lacking in this city. BRT is the right step which doesn't prevent from planning a higher order of transit whenever governments wants to go there.

This "all or nothing" approach is outdated
 

Towered

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Thoughts:

Eglinton East - There's already the Eglinton East LRT plan. Why downgrade to BRT?

Finch - The entirety of Finch should be LRT from end to end.

Jane - Again, there's already a long existing LRT plan. Also, it should terminate at Pioneer Village station, not randomly at Finch.

Sheppard West - This small gap between the Yonge and University subway lines should be an extension of the Sheppard subway. I'd say BRT would be fine going west on Sheppard from Sheppard West station (at Dufferin), but he doesn't mention that at all.

Sheppard East - Isn't the province planning to extend the subway along here? What would be the point of BRT?

Dufferin - This street definitely needs a transit upgrade, but BRT won't work with the narrow road widths south of Eglinton. That chunk needs to be underground LRT. North of that, LRT/BRT is fine on the surface.

Bathurst - Same issues as Dufferin south of Eglinton. North of that BRT would be fine.

Other: I don't think the plan is ambitious enough as far as scope. There are many other wide arterial roads he ignores that would be perfect for easy and cheap BRT implementation. Also, like so many other transit plans we've seen before, frustratingly there is nothing proposed west of Jane. Huge oversight.

Score: C-
 

innsertnamehere

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Generally, an excellent plan I think.

Only quibble is to not bother with Sheppard as long as the PCs are promising a subway there.

I also suspect construction cost estimates are a little low.. but it's such a low cost project it probably doesn't matter too much.

If anything, I would have gone further and added more streets like Wilson, Steeles, and Lawrence East.

Downgrading Eglinton East to BRT makes a lot of sense I think, especially if other streets like Lawrence can be upgraded to BRT as well to better serve eastern Scarborough.

This kind of thing can also help Toronto's road maintenance backlog and help achieve vision zero goals as all these major arterials could be redesigned to modern road design standards in tandem with this - upgraded cycling facilities, road safety features, smart signals, the whole works.
 

adrianaliu

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i really think toronto needs its own version of select bus service in nyc. including bus lanes signal priority nicer stops the whole 9 yards. virtually every major arterial with a sufficiently wide row and a route in the 10 min network needs to be considered for this. it would cost peanuts relative to all the rail based surface transit we're pursuing and go much further.
 

sacred

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“The Province will build a subway here” is not a valid criticism. Most subway extensions are around a decade away, and the Sheppard extension is little more than a whisper. Prioritizing buses is something we can do very quickly and cost-effectively. Regardless of how perfect this plan is, it’s leagues ahead of Sleepy Tory’s record
 

ShonTron

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I don't agree with the choice of corridors either, though the concept is mostly sound. Wilson Avenue is an incredibly busy transit corridor that is always overlooked. A BRT-lite corridor (dedicated lanes curb lanes and queue-jumps where they're not feasible, and all-door boarding) from York Mills Station to Finch and Albion would make a lot of sense.
 

felix123

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Thoughts:

Eglinton East - There's already the Eglinton East LRT plan. Why downgrade to BRT?

Finch - The entirety of Finch should be LRT from end to end.

Jane - Again, there's already a long existing LRT plan. Also, it should terminate at Pioneer Village station, not randomly at Finch.

Sheppard West - This small gap between the Yonge and University subway lines should be an extension of the Sheppard subway. I'd say BRT would be fine going west on Sheppard from Sheppard West station (at Dufferin), but he doesn't mention that at all.

Sheppard East - Isn't the province planning to extend the subway along here? What would be the point of BRT?

Dufferin - This street definitely needs a transit upgrade, but BRT won't work with the narrow road widths south of Eglinton. That chunk needs to be underground LRT. North of that, LRT/BRT is fine on the surface.

Bathurst - Same issues as Dufferin south of Eglinton. North of that BRT would be fine.

Other: I don't think the plan is ambitious enough as far as scope. There are many other wide arterial roads he ignores that would be perfect for easy and cheap BRT implementation. Also, like so many other transit plans we've seen before, frustratingly there is nothing proposed west of Jane. Huge oversight.

Score: C-
Fully agree, BRT can be workable for corridors that have nothing concrete planned, but why delay planned LRT with a mediocre alternative?
 

Northern Light

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Thoughts:

Eglinton East - There's already the Eglinton East LRT plan. Why downgrade to BRT?

The LRT here isn't particularly likely to go forward in the near term; nor should it. The current proposal would fail to achieve any material improvement on current bus travel times.

I'm very pro LRT; but for the time being, this proposal needs to lay dormant for a re-think.

Finch - The entirety of Finch should be LRT from end to end.

That is the proposal, from Finch West Station (where the LRT begins) to Neilson in the east (Finch doesn't meet any major roads, in a major form east thereof, which is Rouge National Park.)

Jane - Again, there's already a long existing LRT plan. Also, it should terminate at Pioneer Village station, not randomly at Finch.

There will not be a Jane LRT in the next 15 years. Its on no one's radar to move forward. Its already a top priority for reserved lanes under Tory's RapidTO program, this is essentially just a beefier version in that it would plan for level boarding and more souped up platforms.

Sheppard West - This small gap between the Yonge and University subway lines should be an extension of the Sheppard subway. I'd say BRT would be fine going west on Sheppard from Sheppard West station (at Dufferin), but he doesn't mention that at all.

Sheppard East - Isn't the province planning to extend the subway along here? What would be the point of BRT?

We need to hear from the province what their ballpark dates are for Sheppard, and whether Sheppard West will factor into their plans (either it has to, or they have to build a new yard and connecting track to any eastern extension.

I have an idea of what the province's timeline is, currently, but its very much written in pencil. I would say you need to get 15 years out of any infra designed for level boarding to justify the investment. Assuming an ambitious delivery plan to have it done/open in 4 years, that means you don't want subway construction interfering for 19 years. I think that's probably feasible. But if the province's plans are more ambitious, then this should be scaled back here to reflect that.

Dufferin - This street definitely needs a transit upgrade, but BRT won't work with the narrow road widths south of Eglinton. That chunk needs to be underground LRT. North of that, LRT/BRT is fine on the surface.

Bathurst - Same issues as Dufferin south of Eglinton. North of that BRT would be fine.

I would agree, with the caveat that nothing underground is coming on either of these corridors. Dufferin south of Eglinton can see improvements (ban on-street parking, curb lanes reserved to buses), but there isn't room for elaborate boarding facilities.

Other: I don't think the plan is ambitious enough as far as scope. There are many other wide arterial roads he ignores that would be perfect for easy and cheap BRT implementation. Also, like so many other transit plans we've seen before, frustratingly there is nothing proposed west of Jane. Huge oversight.

Score: C-

A bit harsh, I think.

What I like bout Gil's plans is that he's purposefully aimed for things he believes he can deliver, at relatively low incremental cost to existing budgets and plans, so that we don't end up discussing fantasies for 10 years that go nowhere.

This plan could be improved on, to be sure; but I think its scope and intent are mostly reasonable.
 
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crs1026

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I would expect this plan will be subjected to the same “modification” that the last mayor’s proposal was. Does anyone remember how Smarttrack started?

Buried in the plan is some insight - in the sense that the corridors identified do generally require upgrading.

Personally I would like to see both Finch and Sheppard leverage the investment to date instead of treating what’s there as stubs that can’t be justified as extended lines. I would prefer to extend the existing higher order lines and really push development onto these corridors - that development could justify and support higher order transit on both.

It’s somewhat of a populist plan, puts the emphasis on some equity areas I suppose, although leaving northern Etobicoke out is perplexing. Sure, it has been Ford/Mammo country…. but are we that vindictive ? The need is just as great on Albion, Dixon, and Kipling.

And, it gives no focus on the Waterfront (east and west). Another odd omission.

- Paul
 

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