[TAS]

I understand he values the Maritime provinces over Alberta because they are more likely to vote liberal but FFS how stupidly clumsy can he be? He now has every other province siding with DS giving her credibility in the eyes of many albertans. Stupidly clumsy politics on his part.

I don't like it at all but the party has lost 20 points in the polls in Atlantic Canada, the people there are financially worse off than Alberta and are now against the carbon tax and the Conservatives have a major campaign going to Axe the Tax. If the Liberals lose their support there they have No hope. This may make people there happy. Desperate party making desperate decisions.

 

[Glenco]

I don't like it at all but the party has lost 20 points in the polls in Atlantic Canada, the people there are financially worse off than Alberta and are now against the carbon tax and the Conservatives have a major campaign going to Axe the Tax. If the Liberals lose their support there they have No hope. This may make people there happy. Desperate party making desperate decisions.

Desperate is a very polite way of putting it. Trudeau may have to axe the carbon tax completely this is a colossal failure on his part There were other measures he could have taken like incentivize people to install heat pumps etc. But that would have cost money. He may have to resign over this complete debacle and we be stuck with PP. Thanks a lot.
How can he reasonably argue he has the authority to impose a carbon tax unilaterally across the country and then carve out exemption for certain people based on a political whim? His whole argument just blew up in his face.

 

[David A]

I think there are few parts to this. Lest we forget, one is actually affordability - heating oil is more expensive than natural gas, so it is not like after taking off the tax people (mostly in Atlantic Canada) are paying less than people elsewhere. They are still paying more.

Yes, another part is the political calculation. Natural gas consumers in rural areas in the west weren't supporting the Federal government anyways, so maybe now some are more upset because someone else is perceived to get something they are not, but does it change election results in those areas if they are already voting Conservative? Probably not.

Having more heat pumps is a good idea, but it probably wouldn't work as well in the colder prairie climate, as it would in Atlantic Canada where there temperatures don't usually get quite as cold. Logically, it might make sense to promote heat pumps in parts of BC, Ontario or Quebec, so I could see that part of this pilot program might get expanded.

 

[Glenco]

Giving a carbon tax break on heating oil undermines the whole principle behind the tax. The more carbon you produce the more you pay in carbon tax. Natural gas is a lot cleaner in this regard and yet we are still expected to pay the tax. How can they possibly rationalize this contradiction it simply renders the whole principle worthless.
Not to mention alienating the climate activists and every other province that has to pay. He has provided ammunition for the axe the tax movement and political momentum for every Conservative Party in Canada. If he thought he could gain political brownie points in Atlantic Canada with this move they will be completely negated by losses elsewhere.
The election isn’t for another two years no need for him to panic but he did.

 

[kcantor]

Giving a carbon tax break on heating oil undermines the whole principle behind the tax. The more carbon you produce the more you pay in carbon tax. Natural gas is a lot cleaner in this regard and yet we are still expected to pay the tax. How can they possibly rationalize this contradiction it simply renders the whole principle worthless.
Not to mention alienating the climate activists and every other province that has to pay. He has provided ammunition for the axe the tax movement and political momentum for every Conservative Party in Canada. If he thought he could gain political brownie points in Atlantic Canada with this move they will be completely negated by losses elsewhere.
The election isn’t for another two years no need for him to panic but he did.

the man is a narcissist and will do anything for attention. how he behaves and what he is prepared to do has everything to do with him and nothing to do with actual principles. this is simply the latest iteration.

the party demonstrated their own priorities when they chose him as leader and we will all pay a big price for their not moving past that and insisting he take his own walk in the snow a long time ago.

 

[David A]

So the people who want to get rid of the carbon tax completely are so upset now because the PM has gotten rid of the carbon tax on something. Have our politics reached peak insanity yet?

 

[kcantor]

So the people who want to get rid of the carbon tax completely are so upset now because the PM has gotten rid of the carbon tax on something. Have our politics reached peak insanity yet?

those who - mistakenly - want to get rid of the carbon tax aren’t “more upset”. if anything they’re ecstatic that the pm has demonstrated that for him it really wasn’t about principle and policy doing the right thing after all, it’s all about politics for him. which means they are equally entitled to make decisions on the basis of politics.

it’s those who believe that a carbon tax - or an equally broad based system of carbon credits etc. similar to quebec’s approach - is proper principle and policy that are now upset because the pm has pulled the rug out from under their position.

the journal’s editorial cartoon in this respect was bang on this morning:

 

[Glenco]

So the people who want to get rid of the carbon tax completely are so upset now because the PM has gotten rid of the carbon tax on something. Have our politics reached peak insanity yet?

No peak hypocrisy. Carbon tax is a great idea as long as it doesn’t jeopardize my Devine right to govern.

 

[David A]

They aren't upset? Really: But they seem quite angry almost all the time. You mean all the outrage fake?

 

[David A]

So if you are someone who is concerned about climate change and actually supports the carbon tax, these seem to be your main choices now:

- a party that supports the carbon tax, but has removed the carbon tax on heating fuel (Liberals)
- a party that supports the carbon tax, but supports removing it on all heating fuels (NDP),
- a party that supports removing the carbon tax on everything (Conservatives)

 

[Glenco]

So if you are someone who is concerned about climate change and actually supports the carbon tax, these seem to be your main choices now:

- a party that supports the carbon tax, but has removed the carbon tax on heating fuel (Liberals)
- a party that supports the carbon tax, but supports removing it on all heating fuels (NDP),
- a party that supports removing the carbon tax on everything (Conservatives)

I believe in climate change and I would like to vote for someone who has the courage of his convictions. Trudeau's lack of courage has handed the Conservatives all the ammunition to win the election. If you are a Liberal supporter you should be outraged at his lack of political savvy and be demanding his resignation and stop making excuses for his lack of judgment.

 

[Whattagame]

Was there a chance that the carbon tax was going to result in severe financial hardship for Canadians reliant on heating oil (more so than other heating methods)?

Pretty much all of the narrative surrounding this issue has sidestepped this question in favour of jumping headlong into the political frenzy.

Perhaps the answer is no, but I haven't seen that key question explored enough to know.

 

[David A]

I believe in climate change and I would like to vote for someone who has the courage of his convictions. Trudeau's lack of courage has handed the Conservatives all the ammunition to win the election. If you are a Liberal supporter you should be outraged at his lack of political savvy and be demanding his resignation and stop making excuses for his lack of judgment.

I respect that you may feel strongly on this. We are having a discussion on a topic, people can have and put forward different points of view. I am not making excuses for his lack of judgment and I am not the type to be easily silenced by attacks or intimidation, if that the intent of saying that.

Lastly, unless the NDP or someone else decides to no longer support the current minority government, there will not be an election tomorrow. So by the time there is an election, there will probably be something else that is the big issue.

 

[kcantor]

Was there a chance that the carbon tax was going to result in severe financial hardship for Canadians reliant on heating oil (more so than other heating methods)?
…

If that’s the real concern then they could have increased the quarterly rebate to lower income earners AND they could have done that across the country (sorcerer for those who need heat in climates much harsher than the maritime’s and potentially at costs equal or higher than heating oil in the maritimes.

the way the pm did this is simultaneously nothing more than vote buying in the maritime and antagonizing the rest of the country to no good end anywhere in the country.

 

[Glenco]

It takes a special kind of genius to get the provincial NDP and the UCP to agree on something. They are both calling for a suspension of carbon tax on all household heating. If that happens you can kiss the carbon tax goodbye.
In the meantime the provincial electricity rates have quintupled since 2020 for no apparent reason. The conservatives have successfully got the public to focus on the carbon tax as being the culprit when it comes to cost of living hardship. Conservatives 1 Trudeau 0.