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Glen

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http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/comment/article/492490--property-tax-hike-could-fund-transit

It’s easy to be a crybaby. Last week, the McGuinty government said it was delaying $4 billion funding for new light rail transit lines.

Mayor David Miller was beside himself in indignation, calling it “disgraceful†and “thoughtless.†Another councillor called it “shockingly horrible.â€

We know McGuinty’s problem. The economic downturn has stripped good industrial jobs, and tax revenue has fallen.

The same week the budget came out, the city’s publication Our Toronto landed on our doorstep, praising the leadership of Miller and the council.

On page 14 the mayor says the City of Toronto has the lowest property taxes in the GTA.

Comparing houses with the same assessment, Miller says the Toronto homeowner pays $225 less a year than in Mississauga, $703 less than in Mar*kham, and $980 less than in Vaughan.

If these light rail transit lines are so critical to the health of the city, why don’t the crybabies on city council fund them with increased residential property tax? Why don’t they take the mid-point for property taxes in the GTA, raising them so every homeowner pays $500 more a year than in the draft budget? That would pour about $400 million this year into these transit lines.

If you want the lowest taxes in the GTA then you can’t afford all the transit improvements you want. If you want more transit, then maybe you can’t have the lowest taxes. Which is it for the crybabies?

When city council meets about the budget on April 15, will the crybabies care enough about transit to vote for the necessary tax increase?
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Now wait just a minute here. It's only a net gain if we leave business taxes where they are now.
 
It's election year, and none of the piggies dare to jepordize their meal ticket to the trough...
 
so if a house in vaughan is worth 500k and a house in toronto is worth 500k, the house in vaughan pays more dollars in taxes per year?
 
^^^ Yes.

But, c'mon, what kind of article is this? It's all "Come on, you jerks. Do something incredibly unpopular that will surely lead to your own electoral defeat in the fall. What are you - SCARED?"

So long as there are people and politicians who believe somehow that they can literally have their cake and eat it too - freeze or lower taxes while funding huge capital projects through 'efficiencies' - you're not going to see much movement on this. We are still living in a world where otherwise intelligent people will say things like "I don't know about you guys, but I already feel like we're taxed to death" and point to $50 cab rides on expense reports as proof that surely we can afford $5 billion in transit expansion if everyone would just tighten their belts.
 
Well, on the flip side of that.... if we don't tighten our belts, we'll all of sudden be able to afford a 5 billion dollar project?

2006 budget was 6.5 billion, our current budget is 9.68.... even if we managed to save half of the expenses, we would have 1.5 billion dollars annually from today to fund our infrastructure project. a 4 billion dollar project does not mean you need to have it upfront.

It's simply lack of long term planning.

That being said, I don't know why people compare Toronto property taxes vs the 905. City of Toronto generates more revenue per sq km than the other municipalities. That means we get substantially more money for one km of sewage, road,electrical line built than the suburbs. Yes, there will be some extra expenses due to size, but it shoudl definately not cost the same, or more than other municipalities.
 
though the taxes may be higher outside toronto, i would guess the cost of buying a home of similar size/age/quality is cheaper. for example, a small house in toronto might cost 450k but the exact same house outside of toronto might cost 275k.

so not comparing assessments, taxes outside of toronto would be cheaper since the same house would be worth less.

pretend the house/property is exactly the same for argument's sake:

450k in toronto would cost $2749.16 a year in taxes

275k in vaughan would cost $2147.28 a year in taxes, plus the cost of the house is 175k cheaper to buy.

there's no need to raise property taxes in toronto. the values of our homes makes up for the lower rates.
 
But the cost of services is much higher in Toronto. Some of this is due to Toronto providing services (like transit) to 905 residents who don't pay taxes but, regardless, it costs far more to keep the City of Toronto going than it does any other city, even per capita.

And, honestly, the way our tax system works is such that if someone can afford to buy a more expensive house than they can afford to pay a progressively larger tax bill each year.
 
GraphicMatt said:
But the cost of services is much higher in Toronto. Some of this is due to Toronto providing services (like transit) to 905 residents who don't pay taxes but, regardless, it costs far more to keep the City of Toronto going than it does any other city, even per capita.

And, honestly, the way our tax system works is such that if someone can afford to buy a more expensive house than they can afford to pay a progressively larger tax bill each year.
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i understand for the first part but for the second part, what if you're elderly and when you bought your home it was only worth 90k but now it's worth 550k? these people aren't looking to turn a profit by selling their homes, they just wanna spend the rest of their days in familiar settings.

also, do we want to raise taxes and encourage more people to leave the city? the high cost of housing is pricing alot of people out of toronto already.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
i understand for the first part but for the second part, what if you're elderly and when you bought your home it was only worth 90k but now it's worth 550k?
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This is really only a valid case if the house prices on the edge of the equivalent GTA were 90K back then. It's likely that they were closer to 60K.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
i understand for the first part but for the second part, what if you're elderly and when you bought your home it was only worth 90k but now it's worth 550k? these people aren't looking to turn a profit by selling their homes, they just wanna spend the rest of their days in familiar settings.

also, do we want to raise taxes and encourage more people to leave the city? the high cost of housing is pricing alot of people out of toronto already.
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We absolutely have to balance our tax levels so that we're not limiting residential growth in the city. But demand for new residential development is high enough that it is unlikely that a residential tax increase of a few hundred dollars a year would cause an exodus.

It's similar to the Land Transfer Tax. Realtors freaked the hell out and said it would mark the end of the real estate boom in Toronto. And then it... didn't.

As to your first point, you can create exemptions for the elderly or first time buyers or whoever else if necessary.
 
The argument that the average house price in Toronto is a lot higher is absolutely wrong.

If you were to take the average between the 416 and 905 you'd see the average house prices are very close ...

Toronto has many areas where the homes go for a lot less then the 905 average ... parts of Scarborough / North York / ... These tend to balance out the higher home prices in the more affluent areas.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
i understand for the first part but for the second part, what if you're elderly and when you bought your home it was only worth 90k but now it's worth 550k? these people aren't looking to turn a profit by selling their homes, they just wanna spend the rest of their days in familiar settings.

also, do we want to raise taxes and encourage more people to leave the city? the high cost of housing is pricing alot of people out of toronto already.
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If you've got that much equity in your house, you can afford to take loans out on that equity to last you the rest of your life. Plus if you're over 65, you will get higher property tax returns from the province.
 
kettal said:
If you've got that much equity in your house, you can afford to take loans out on that equity to last you the rest of your life. Plus if you're over 65, you will get higher property tax returns from the province.
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Let's not forget old age security and the CPP.

Let's try to tap into these old geezers and their life savings, while we're at it, make them get an advance on their life insurance policies also.
 
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