[syn]

This is not an area I'm exactly an expert in, so I'm hoping some of our more informed members can provide some enlightenment.

I've noticed one of the main criticisms of Miller is that he was in bed with the unions. Many feel he should've just got rid of them. Ford has played on that sentiment and vowed to privatize garbage collection.

My question is how easy would it be to do this? As far as I understand, you can't just get rid of a unionized workforce and replace them with a privatized solution. What would be involved? What are the legal issues?

This isn't about being pro or against unions, I'm just curious about something that seems a lot more complicated than many suggest.

 

[Action Jackson]

Getting rid of the unions borders on impossibility. Knocking the arrogance of Bob Kinnear and Mark Ferguson down to size is needed to help contain Toronto's financial problems. That's rather different than getting rid of the unions.

 

[syn]

Getting rid of the unions borders on impossibility. Knocking the arrogance of Bob Kinnear and Mark Ferguson down to size is needed to help contain Toronto's financial problems. That's rather different than getting rid of the unions.

Why exactly does it border on impossibility?

 

[spider]

Getting rid of the unions borders on impossibility.

Many, if not most, municipalities have contracted out their waste collection as a result of unsatisfactory unionised in-house arrangements.

Why exactly does it border on impossibility?

 

[taxman]

These people won't lose their jobs, unless by their own choice. Usually, the union employees are given an offer to come work for the outsourced company. If they choose not to accept it, then they are out of luck.

There will probably be lawsuits filed, but Im sure the city lawyers are good enough to draw the lawsuit out for years. We'll see.

 

[JWBF]

For good or bad, unions also join together in solidarity.

One question I always ask but get few responses... when does a union become a modern guild?

 

[Simple Man]

I think contracting out garbage is fair.


You will get better service for a cheaper price. As an individual who works for a living, you would never pass up such a choice.

Why does the city?

One question I always ask but few responses, when does a union just become a modern guild?

True when unions say they work for the poor, I always laugh and fall out of my chair laughing...

 

[GraphicMatt]

Contracting out garbage probably would have happened regardless of who won this election (maybe not Joe) - it's an inevitable part of things.

Completely removing public sector unions is almost impossible, though. Certainly at the city level, there's not a lot of power. Provincially a lot more could be done, as they could reform the arbitration system so that unions don't actively try to force legislation that will get them in front of an arbitrator.

I think unions are important but public sector unions are challenging. With the private sector, there's a built-in incentive for the union and management to work together and compromise. If a car company is facing bankruptcy, the union will make concessions to ensure things stay afloat. In the public sector, the union doesn't necessarily have that motivation - the government has, essentially, a limitless supply of money for wages and can't go bankrupt.

It's an unworkable model and a challenging one. Anyone who purports to have easy answers related to these issues is lying to you.

 

[Filip]

Contracting out garbage probably would have happened regardless of who won this election (maybe not Joe) - it's an inevitable part of things.

Completely removing public sector unions is almost impossible, though. Certainly at the city level, there's not a lot of power. Provincially a lot more could be done, as they could reform the arbitration system so that unions don't actively try to force legislation that will get them in front of an arbitrator.

I think unions are important but public sector unions are challenging. With the private sector, there's a built-in incentive for the union and management to work together and compromise. If a car company is facing bankruptcy, the union will make concessions to ensure things stay afloat. In the public sector, the union doesn't necessarily have that motivation - the government has, essentially, a limitless supply of money for wages and can't go bankrupt.

It's an unworkable model and a challenging one. Anyone who purports to have easy answers related to these issues is lying to you.

Essentially what has to be done is to reduce the power of certain public unions in the city.

Obviously, begin with the TTC. Employees who are rude, disagraceful and sleep on the job should be fired wtihout a peep coming from Kinnear. This is complete disdain for taxpayers if these employees, with very large salaries, can do whatever they want.

I know with me, if I was caught sleeping at work I'd probably be fired (luckily just given a stern talking to).

 

[GraphicMatt]

I agree to an extent, but again, it's a complex issue masquerading as a simple one. The city can only set out a code conduct that union members agree to follow. If a sleeping employee claims that their sleeping is due to a health condition, the TTC's hands are tied.

The same is true of any private sector business, by the way. If you have an employee who is claiming health issues you essentially cannot terminate them without facing a potential lawsuit. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it's dangerous.

 

[Simple Man]

However with Ford in Charge and the fact he won by a huge margin...


I think Unions will not have the support from the Public anymore especially in these hard times.

 

[GraphicMatt]

The public hasn't really supported unions for years. Seriously, the union HATED Miller by the end of his term. It's not just a simple matter of having a mayor who dislikes unions.

 

[Simple Man]

Unions have really lost support in the past few decade in Canada.

 

[GraphicMatt]

So can you acknowledge that the solution isn't just to elect someone who REALLY REALLY hates them?

 

[avenirv]

but the private company may be unionized, correct ?