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reaperexpress

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I believe skipping Georgetown might save the most time if the main line track is used instead of the yard tracks. When I've used the train we spend 5 minutes getting into Georgetown and 5 minutes getting out.
Those travel times from the business case already include resolving the speed restriction at Georgetown. Relative to those travel times, skipping Georgetown is no different than skipping any other station.
 

Bordercollie

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Those travel times from the business case already include resolving the speed restriction at Georgetown. Relative to those travel times, skipping Georgetown is no different than skipping any other station.
10 minutes on a 4 hour journey is nothing.

You could probably be better off fixing the track between Kitchener and London.
 

reaperexpress

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10 minutes on a 4 hour journey is nothing.

You could probably be better off fixing the track between Kitchener and London.
- I'm pretty sure rebuilding 94 km of track west of Kitchener is a lot more expensive than adding signalling to 0.5 km of track in Georgetown.
- The number of GO trains through Georgetown is currently six times the number of GO+VIA trains west of Kitchener. Even with expanded service to London we could expect 1.5x to 2x more trains at Georgetown.
- The number of passengers per train through Georgetown is also considerably more than the passengers per train west of Kitchener, so the person-hours saved will also be correspondingly higher. Even if the track west of Kitchener were fixed up to the same standard as east of Kitchener and the local transit systems were centralized around the stations like they are at Guelph, Mount Pleasant, Brampton, Bramalea, Mount Dennis, Bloor and Union, ridership west of Kitchener would still be lower because London, St. Marys and Stratford have lower populations than Guelph, Brampton and Toronto.

I'm strongly in favour of upgrading the track west of Kitchener, but doing so is not an alternative to resolving the slow zone through Georgetown.
 
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mdrejhon

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10 minutes on a 4 hour journey is nothing.

You could probably be better off fixing the track between Kitchener and London.
You’re not thinking the useful perspective:

It’s the COST PER MINUTE TIME SAVED :)

I think that the costs to save a minute through Georgetown is quite reasonable, compared to the costs to save a minute between Kitchener-London.

There are literally over a thousand separate construction projects between London-Toronto, and they might only hit, say, 50 to 100 or 200 of the most cost-effective projects. Some are a stretch of track between two signals, some are are a new switch, some are a new or rearranged signal, etc. Each may save seconds or minutes by themselves (or in combination), and some are better bang-per-dollar in long term time savings. New track never saves time by themselves, it’s the combination of new track + related signals + related switches.

New track hooked into low-speed switches, means you still must run slow on new track. New track hooked into old signals, means you still are bound by the constraints of the old signals and layout. So some projects need to be done as a combination, to get the maximal time savings. You literally have to TETRIS all those related mini construction projects together to unlock the best bang-for-dollar. Even forgetting to do some items or postponing some items, means you’ve punted time savings down the road — just look at what happened to the Georgetown Corridor, they had to punt a few things down the road, not all time savings were fully unlocked (and still isn’t yet).

They should find the cheapest minutes to fix (as individual projects and packages of projects), and fix ALL of them.
 
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anb

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How would a weekend Kitchener train work if it was implemented right now. Would it be Niagara-esque running express and only stopping at the major destinations, or would it be like the Barrie train on the weekends and run all stops on its entire route with a frequency of 3-4 hours apart, or something completely different either for better or worse as the corridor is already well developed for most of its run.
 

Bordercollie

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You’re not thinking the useful perspective:

It’s the COST PER MINUTE TIME SAVED :)

I think that the costs to save a minute through Georgetown is quite reasonable, compared to the costs to save a minute between Kitchener-London.

There are literally over a thousand separate construction projects between London-Toronto, and they might only hit, say, 50 to 100 or 200 of the most cost-effective projects. Some are a stretch of track between two signals, some are are a new switch, some are a new or rearranged signal, etc. Each may save seconds or minutes by themselves (or in combination), and some are better bang-per-dollar in long term time savings. New track never saves time by themselves, it’s the combination of new track + related signals + related switches.

New track hooked into low-speed switches, means you still must run slow on new track. New track hooked into old signals, means you still are bound by the constraints of the old signals and layout. So some projects need to be done as a combination, to get the maximal time savings. You literally have to TETRIS all those related mini construction projects together to unlock the best bang-for-dollar. Even forgetting to do some items or postponing some items, means you’ve punted time savings down the road — just look at what happened to the Georgetown Corridor, they had to punt a few things down the road, not all time savings were fully unlocked (and still isn’t yet).

They should find the cheapest minutes to fix (as individual projects and packages of projects), and fix ALL of them.
And by making it inconvenient for passengers and eliminating an important community.

I would rather the train take another 10 minutes and potentially serve 40k people.
 

Bordercollie

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How would a weekend Kitchener train work if it was implemented right now. Would it be Niagara-esque running express and only stopping at the major destinations, or would it be like the Barrie train on the weekends and run all stops on its entire route with a frequency of 3-4 hours apart, or something completely different either for better or worse as the corridor is already well developed for most of its run.
It would make sense to serve all stops.

It's about trying to serve as many people as possible.

If VIA would bring their service back to Niagara they would stop at Oakville, Aldershot, Grimsby, ST Catharines, and Niagara. Stoney Creek could be served using West Harbor if they can do it without backing up.
 

Allandale25

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^ I can't remember but in one of the updates in 2020 or 2021 they projected in months how long construction of the entire project would take. Maybe @crs1026 or others remember.
 

crs1026

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^ I can't remember but in one of the updates in 2020 or 2021 they projected in months how long construction of the entire project would take. Maybe @crs1026 or others remember.

I can't, but the target date in most announcement still says 2024. See here.

PS - but more recently 60-70 months, from the business case approved by ML 02/2020 p xiv here

Time's a ticking, is all I can say.

- Paul

PPS - Just to refresh the history, the final decision on route was made in February 2020 - see here. - with much backtracking on timeline.
 
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dowlingm

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Just saw an L6L6 consist, both MP40, head west on LSE toward Union at Coxwell. Does GO often run that formation when not a rescue? Haven’t seen previously.
 

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