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The vibe I get in Hamilton is one of the most depressing in Ontario. As a real estate agent though I can see why it's booming.
 
My wife and I have considered downtown Hamilton as it resembles the hot neighborhoods of downtown Toronto before the gentrification.

In its current state, you do require balls of steel to live in the core (high risk high reward situation atm).

Current issues:
1. A lot more "crazies" than regular people in the core, especially when the sun goes down
2. The homeless/beggars in the core are threatening, large (well built), unpredictable men. They are aggressive and will threaten you if you don't give them pocket change
3. Pollution that you can smell and see. Hard to breathe on a hot summer day
4. Not many jobs - commuting is a must
5. No subway, owning a car is a must

What we like about Hamilton:
1. Affordable century old homes
2. The only urban city next to Toronto. Not a suburban wasteland (Mississauga, Brampton etc...)
3. Geographically much more beautiful than Toronto
4. Go access (two stations in the core)
5. A lot of independent shops, restaurants (Hamilton downtown resembles the Junction area in Toronto)
 
Google 'Hamilton is" and then see what google predicts you to type.

Google 'Toronto is' and then see what google predicts you to type.
 
Hamilton is truly awesome. has everything that Toronto has but with fewer repeats of the same thing and no lineups. The library system is fantastic. Farmer's market is actually useful - you can shop there, not blow your wallet to bits, and come home with real groceries, not just artsy-curios and specialty mustards. You can live an urban life and when you need the convenience of suburbia it’s right there, 15 minutes up the road. Hamilton is also well-placed to enjoy Buffalo, south-western Ontario, and Toronto. It is the perfect location. It's got the university and Copps so lots of entertainment and shows and sports. From 1998-2009, Hamilton was Ontario’s best-kept secret.

But it is not 2009 anymore. There are downsides.

My wife and I have considered downtown Hamilton as it resembles the hot neighborhoods of downtown Toronto before the gentrification.

In its current state, you do require balls of steel to live in the core (high risk high reward situation atm).

Current issues:
1. A lot more "crazies" than regular people in the core, especially when the sun goes down
2. The homeless/beggars in the core are threatening, large (well built), unpredictable men. They are aggressive and will threaten you if you don't give them pocket change
3. Pollution that you can smell and see. Hard to breathe on a hot summer day
4. Not many jobs - commuting is a must
5. No subway, owning a car is a must

What we like about Hamilton:
1. Affordable century old homes
2. The only urban city next to Toronto. Not a suburban wasteland (Mississauga, Brampton etc...)
3. Geographically much more beautiful than Toronto
4. Go access (two stations in the core)
5. A lot of independent shops, restaurants (Hamilton downtown resembles the Junction area in Toronto)

As a former Hamiltonian (now living in Toronto), this is the most accurate pro/con list I've seen, minus the pollution which is vastly overstated based on stereotypes.

To some extent, an emerging problem is that the prices aren't that great of a deal anymore (particularly if you add in the commuting costs of Go Train plus TTC), unless you're willing to live away from the GO Train or in a neighbourhood that is sketchy. And when I mean sketchy, I don't mean Toronto sketchy. I mean hookers on your driveway sketchy. I mean sleeping stranger in your backyard sketchy. I mean don't go into that laundromat after 8 PM sketchy. I mean schools you're not sure you want your kids to go to sketchy.

But the real problem in the Hammer is jobs. There are fewer of them. There is less variety. If you find one, it is usually not as well-paying as it would be in Toronto and it's likely one of the only available jobs in your field, which means you're one job-loss away from financial insolvency.

Another downside is its suburbanism. Yes, downtown Hamilton is relatively dense and its attracting lots of independent shops and stores and it feels like you're living in The Junction. But imagine The Junction, stretched out over double the land mass, surrounded by suburbs and divided up by big, four lane streets, with no streetcar, no subway, and limited bussing.

People see the cutsey shops on Locke, or the north end or even Ottawa St and envision family walks to shops and a pedestrian life with a paper bag of groceries in their arms but that's not the case. The things that make Hamilton a bit edgy aren't useful - you generally don't shop at the Caribbean mini mart, don't eat frequently at the Portuguese Association, don't spend evenings at the Navy Hall and only need a few things from the bakery, coffee shop or store that sells organic honey and candles.

You need a car and you need if for everything. The places you need to visit week in, week out are a drive-away, often out in a suburban power centre. The places you want to eat at are spread out across the city. You're not a walk away from a hardware store. If you're going to do any decent amount of shopping at Jackson Square or the Farmer's Market, you're not going to be able to do it via the HSR. I mean, look where the hippy-dippy food co-op located - a place where the parking lot is bigger than the store, right on York Boulevard, walkable for the residents of about three streets and that's it.

If you're self-employed or can work from home and you'd don't mind a suburban lifestyle, or you feel really secure in a job that's in Hamilton, take the leap to Hamilton and you'll never ever ever regret it. I miss it all the time, we go back at least once a month.

If you don't want to use your car all the time for everything, or you need to come in to Toronto more than twice a week, don't bother.
 
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You're absolutely right that the prices don't make sense anymore. This is the reason why we've decided not to move to Hamilton.

A decent house in the Junction area will cost you 650k - 750k. A similar house in Hamilton (in the good neighborhoods) will cost you 350k - 450k. When we added up the taxes and the commuting cost, it would end up costing us more to live in Hamilton. The taxes are too damn high! Especially in the good neighborhoods (Durrand). GO pass from Hamilton to Toronto is crazy expensive. The 407 is a must if you need to commute to the GTA. And of course gas prices.

As for the pollution, it's not as bad as it seems when you drive on the QEW, but there is a distinctive tar-like smell in the core.
 
Yeah, I might just be used to it. Sometimes I do notice the 'old cauliflower' scent in the air around Copps in the winter when we go to Bulldogs games. Heck, I might be nostalgic for it.

You're right - the GO pass is insane at 350$ per month, not including getting on to the TTC. Moving to Hamilton and commuting made sense back when you could get a place that needed a bit of work for 250 000$ or 300$. It was, for a time, the best urban option for single-income families in my opinion. Day care, to be fair, is cheaper in Hamilton but then again not as easy to get to since there's no subway.

We tried to commute and it was a complete killer for us - there were days where we had less than 12 hours between getting back to the station at night and getting there for the morning trip. A former coworker of mine sold her place in Toronto, bought and moved to Hamilton and ended up selling up and moving to Toronto back after four years. Loved the city, but as she said "when you get delayed on transit in Toronto and live in Toronto it is a pain, when you get delayed on transit in Toronto and live in Hamilton you're screwed." She didn't take into account the time it takes to get to and from home-GO station, and in our field work hours are unpredictable and it made for a lot of very late returns home. Couldn't imagine it working with kids. We often see her in Hamilton when we visit the city on weekends.

To add, my critique on the car necessity isn't a judgment on cars. I personally don't mind a more suburban lifestyle myself. I'd give my next born to have my job and my wife's job out in Hamilton instead of Toronto.

But people see Hamilton as the next-most urban place in Ontario and while technically that's true, it is a more spaced-out American-style lite-density urbanism. Hamilton is much more similar to a place like Cleveland than it is to Toronto.
 
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Yeah, I might just be used to it. Sometimes I do notice the 'old cauliflower' scent in the air around Copps in the winter when we go to Bulldogs games. Heck, I might be nostalgic for it.

You're right - the GO pass is insane at 350$ per month, not including getting on to the TTC. Moving to Hamilton and commuting made sense back when you could get a place that needed a bit of work for 250 000$ or 300$. It was, for a time, the best urban option for single-income families in my opinion. Day care, to be fair, is cheaper in Hamilton but then again not as easy to get to since there's no subway.

We tried to commute and it was a complete killer for us - there were days where we had 12 hours between getting back to the station at night and getting there for the morning trip. A former coworker of mine sold her place in Toronto, bought and moved to Hamilton and ended up selling up and moving to Toronto back after four years. Loved the city, but as she said "when you get delayed on transit in Toronto and live in Toronto it is a pain, when you get delayed on transit in Toronto and live in Hamilton you're screwed." She didn't take into account the time it takes to get to and from home-GO station, and in our field work hours are unpredictable and it made for a lot of very late returns home. Couldn't imagine it working with kids. We often see her in Hamilton when we visit on weekends.

To add, my critique on the car necessity isn't a judgment on cars. I personally don't mind a more suburban lifestyle myself. I'd give my next born to have my job and my wife's job out in Hamilton instead of Toronto.

But people see Hamilton as the next-most urban place in Ontario and while technically that's true, it is a more spaced-out American-style lite-density urbanism. Hamilton is much more similar to a place like Cleveland than it is to Toronto.

In 10 yrs the Junction house will probably double in value while the Hamilton property will be worth half. Hamilton is a desolate, decaying ruin of a city. The only things holding it together are the university and the hospitals.

If you want a smaller town culture try Waterloo.
 
In 10 yrs the Junction house will probably double in value while the Hamilton property will be worth half. Hamilton is a desolate, decaying ruin of a city. The only things holding it together are the university and the hospitals.

If you want a smaller town culture try Waterloo.

Check out the super art crawl this coming September. I am sure you will have a different perspective of the city.

http://www.supercrawl.ca/
 
My wife and I have considered downtown Hamilton as it resembles the hot neighborhoods of downtown Toronto before the gentrification.

In its current state, you do require balls of steel to live in the core (high risk high reward situation atm).

Current issues:
1. A lot more "crazies" than regular people in the core, especially when the sun goes down
2. The homeless/beggars in the core are threatening, large (well built), unpredictable men. They are aggressive and will threaten you if you don't give them pocket change
3. Pollution that you can smell and see. Hard to breathe on a hot summer day
4. Not many jobs - commuting is a must
5. No subway, owning a car is a must

What we like about Hamilton:
1. Affordable century old homes
2. The only urban city next to Toronto. Not a suburban wasteland (Mississauga, Brampton etc...)
3. Geographically much more beautiful than Toronto
4. Go access (two stations in the core)
5. A lot of independent shops, restaurants (Hamilton downtown resembles the Junction area in Toronto)

Everyone: I found this information about Hamilton to be very interesting...2nd largest Real Estate market in Canada...

How much of this is "overflow" from the Greater Toronto Area?

These posts remind me of those that have "mega-commutes" as I refer to them and NYC has its share thanks to the NYC
area's high real estate values and a lack of affordable rentals in and around NYC...

This also reminds me of Baltimore-Washington in which the two cities are virtually the same distance apart (40 miles) and
that Baltimore has more reasonable housing prices but unfortunately more marginal neighborhoods - but I will add that
the District of Columbia has its share of areas that are not desirable...

Every city or city pairs has its good and not-so-good points-Hamilton's are interesting to me...LI MIKE
 
Hamilton's having a bit of a it-girl renaissance right now. People who wouldn't have touched in with a ten foot pole are now mumbling about moving there, though most won't make the jump.

I'd say a lot of the overflow was from Toronto, creative work-from-home types started the move around 2002-2008 but I think that is waning.

My sense from friends and family is that a lot of the Hamilton growth is from suburban buyers from along the western GTA corridor like Burlington (suburban city just eat of Hamilton) where prices for single family homes are starting to hit $500 000 no matter where you live, or Oakville which are even worse (a sub-story that has been lost in the Toronto housing price increase situation is the absolutely bananas pricing you're starting to see in the some of the burbs, particuarly western ones).

People looking to buy in these places are thinking "what's another 20 minutes on the train or car if I save 75 000-100 000$?" (Or 150 000 if you're willing to live on the Mountain, or 200 000$ if you're willing to live in the east end or below the mountain or in a sketchy area.) That's the cost-to-commute calculus that makes sense, when you're comparing downtown Toronto to Hamilton that's when it is incomprehensible. If you're not going right downtown or you have a job within the western GTA, preferably along the 407, it's more doable.

In terms of mega commutes, Toronto to Hamilton is probably really not that bad in the US context, but in the Canadian context it is on the more extreme end of things I think.

In 10 yrs the Junction house will probably double in value while the Hamilton property will be worth half. Hamilton is a desolate, decaying ruin of a city. The only things holding it together are the university and the hospitals.

If you want a smaller town culture try Waterloo.

I'd never bet broadly against Toronto vs Hamilton in terms of appreciation, but the comparison is like comparing New York to Cleveland. Otherwise, posts like this are just kind of sad in their ignorance. Top city in construction jobs created, busiest Canadian Great Lakes port, rated the top city to invest in in Ontario (3rd in Canada), top ten by Financial Times in North America for investment, building boom both in terms of urban condos and suburban housing. Hamilton is anything but desolate or decaying...and you reference Waterloo? Hamilton has a really unique position in terms of urban offers and suburban convenience that Waterloo cannot match. That's not to say Waterloo isn't a nice place to live, but they are incomparable, in terms of economy, trajectory and lifestyle.
 
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