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aguduser

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I know that condo unit size is getting smaller and smaller, but I'm still amazed to see a two bedroom unit plan that is just merely 570 sqft. I mean, in my head, a one bedroom unit is currently somewhere between 500 - 580 sqft, a one bed plus den is somewhere between 580 - 720 sqft, and a two bedroom must be more than 800 sqft.

But here they are - two bed units that are 570, 580, and 590 sqft respectively, from Westside Gallery Lofts (phase II):
http://www.westsidelofts.ca/570sqft-L02.pdf
http://www.westsidelofts.ca/580sqft-L11.pdf
http://www.westsidelofts.ca/590sqft-L06.pdf

Not to mention that these units will have 8 ft ceilings despite being called "lofts". Imagine living in a small box!

And there was also a bachelor unit that is 330 sqft in phase I!

I just wonder how small will condo units get in Toronto. There's a 55 square foot apartment in downtown New York now: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/small_price_to_pay_yk3QVpgdWYWTBnEhJ0QPXN

So can it be such a norm now that builders can just get away with selling a 570 sqft unit as a two bedroom, despite the fact that a guest must walk into one of the two bedrooms to get to the washroom or the balcony? Can it get even worse than this in the coming years?
 
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UrbanVigor

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Wow... to their credit, I do have to say that these are good floor plans and a great use of space. However, it's at the cost of closet and living space and the second bedroom is always tight.

Would definitely have to insert a wardrobe in the second bedroom which takes up square footage unless these 2 bedrooms were meant for a single individual or couple who wishes to have a guest room or make the second bedroom an office.

But for two single people to live in any of these I would argue that it's too tight. Would depend on the living arrangments of those occupying the place.

It makes you wonder... are developers designing floor plans based on real trends or are they dictating them?
 

aguduser

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unless these 2 bedrooms were meant for a single individual or couple who wishes to have a guest room or make the second bedroom an office.

But for two single people to live in any of these I would argue that it's too tight.

That's why these units should have been marketed as 1+D units, not 2B. If they were 1+D, I would have not said a thing. :)
 

cdr108

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that is ridiculous !

builders and buyers are to blame here ...
developers come up with smaller spaces and crazier ideas of what to market as bedrooms;
and if the public is willing to purchase RE at any cost, then this is what happens.

only 20 years ago, a 1 bedroom unit was 800 SF;
10 years ago, it was 600 SF;
now it's 450 SF.
 

Team Me

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Wow... to their credit, I do have to say that these are good floor plans and a great use of space. However, it's at the cost of closet and living space and the second bedroom is always tight.

Yeah, that first one especially. Obviously the rooms are tiny, and they shouldn't be calling these lofts, but you could totally make this layout work with a living and dining area. Whether someone could really live in the second bedroom without a closet is another question. But if you were a couple, this would actually be a pretty decent small layout with a guest bedroom - so long as you're not pack rats.

However that second layout (Loft 11) would be almost impossible to set up in any sort of normal configuration. You would inevitably end up with your couch in your kitchen.
 

cdr108

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Yeah, that first one especially. Obviously the rooms are tiny, and they shouldn't be calling these lofts, but you could totally make this layout work with a living and dining area. Whether someone could really live in the second bedroom without a closet is another question. But if you were a couple, this would actually be a pretty decent small layout with a guest bedroom - so long as you're not pack rats..


come on ... really ?!?!?

the 'living' space is 9 ft wide (the 11 ft depth includes the kitchen);
the main entry closet is 3 ft wide;
the bedroom closet is only 2 ft wide
 

greenleaf

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In these three units, the bathrooms seem way too large and inefficient. If the sink is moved across from the toilet, then that would open up a huge amount space for much needed closet space.
 

carturo15

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that is ridiculous !

builders and buyers are to blame here ...
developers come up with smaller spaces and crazier ideas of what to market as bedrooms;
and if the public is willing to purchase RE at any cost, then this is what happens.

only 20 years ago, a 1 bedroom unit was 800 SF;
10 years ago, it was 600 SF;
now it's 450 SF.

What wrong with it? do you think that a first time bachelor buyer has the money to buy one bedroom 800, 700 or 600 sq ft at $500 sq ft in downtown? you should go to New York and see the size of the small units in Manhatan. That is not crazy and ridiculous, that is what the market is asking for.... blame builders and buyers for what? for building affordable and nice living spaces for first time buyers, bachelors or young couples?
 

aguduser

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What wrong with it? do you think that a first time bachelor buyer has the money to buy one bedroom 800, 700 or 600 sq ft at $500 sq ft in downtown? you should go to New York and see the size of the small units in Manhatan. That is not crazy and ridiculous, that is what the market is asking for.... blame builders and buyers for what? for building affordable and nice living spaces for first time buyers, bachelors or young couples?

Or we can all look forward to coffin-sized homes like what they have now in Japan: http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/01/07/lah.japan.capsule.motel.cnn

Well, that's what my question was: what can urban living's standards get to? Human beings seem to have a great ability to get accustomed to anything. But then, should we just all accept it that way? After all, what are we living for?
 

aguduser

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Or we can all look forward to coffin-sized homes like what they have now in Japan: http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/01/07/lah.japan.capsule.motel.cnn

Well, that's what my question was: what can urban living's standards get to? Human beings seem to have a great ability to get accustomed to anything. But then, should we just all accept it that way? After all, what are we living for?

And that's why I appreciate THTC housing in Toronto!

Despite the fact that one THTC building will be located right next to my under-construction condo building, and may likely affect the values of my soon-to-be ready brand new condo unit. I don't care! Less fortunate people need a decent home, too!
 

general surfer

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From the condo size is getting smaller and smaller, u can see a city is changing , look around the major big city in the world, new york, london, japan, paris, hk, and other well development country, the more core downtown u get into, always smaller unit in demand. its a simple supply and demand game. Also that means toronto is booming
 

bikegirl

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From the condo size is getting smaller and smaller, u can see a city is changing , look around the major big city in the world, new york, london, japan, paris, hk, and other well development country, the more core downtown u get into, always smaller unit in demand. its a simple supply and demand game. Also that means toronto is booming

True, it's a good sign. But on the other hand, I feel like our condo prices (versus their size) are not really matching the pace the city itself is growing at. Hong Kong, New York, London, etc. are pricey but the sheer amount and diversity of establishments matches that. I wonder if at the beginning, the real estate followed the business growth or the other way around.
 

PukeGreen

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Our condo was built in 1990, and it's well under 400 square feet, so condos of this size are not a new phenomenon. My wife bought it a few years before I came along and it was a great chance for her to finally stop paying rent and own her own place. Granted now it's a bit cramped for two, but we make do, and small space living keeps the condo fees low and limits any temptation to buy crap we don't need. In a few years we'll pay down the mortgage, sell to another young person looking to break into the market, and then move up to a bigger place. No big deal.

If you don't want a small condo, don't buy one! But I see no need to start "blaming" buyers and developers for encouraging small units. If all units were 800 or 900 square feet, these days that would mean that a large percentage of people couldn't afford to buy in the core; not everyone has 400-500K to spend, especially when they're younger, and renting into your 30s or 40s is downright depressing.
 

general surfer

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personally i love small space living, but unfortuanately my hubby cant do that, and he doesnt like condo since lots of rules and neighbour noise and that, at the beginning i try to convince him to buy a bachelor unit or studio unit under 150k, and we could have lot more money to other stuff, like travelling and buying other stuff when we want and not to consider the amount, i like the older building with a more square layout, so even studio size is doable.oh well....... everything is too late now.
 

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