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drum118

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With the amount of things happen to this area over the next few years, there will be more posting for it here and to keep it from TTC catch all.

Looks like the the time line is slipping and going to take longer to do from what I was told today. A few known dates have become unknown or a time line for them.

2 police officers on duty at the intersection waving traffic through the intersection on red light when no pedestrians waiting to cross. TTC had 2 Transit Control Enforcers at the east end of Queen and 2 at yard entrance. First time seeing the Transit Control Enforcers with the name on the back of the jacket since they started up. Cut the cost of using police doing the same work and they can be use where needed.

All the rail on Queen where the concrete was removed from the last time I saw the site as well the concrete holding it in place. About 60% of the area is clean to allow inspection of the road, ties and clamps with crew chipping away at the remaining area concrete. Saw a new toy being used to sweep the area by hand for the first time. Its a handheld sweeper that is power about 18-24 wide and does a good job. TTC staff inspecting the road and making it where concrete will have to be remove be tween the ties where the rail runs.

Staff was talking to the Day team that does most of TTC concrete work under Toronto control and looks like some of the work will be done on the weekend along replacing a few clips on the steel ties. TTC wants to start reinstalling the rails next week to allow concrete to be pour so that section of Queen can be open to local traffic or shifting traffic off King to Queen so work can take place for removing that turning lane onto King.

Counted over a dozen cars who thought they could sneak through the intersection on Roncesvalles to only have to do a U-turn.

An LRV came south to the yard with pole up to only to change to pan once in the yard, While looking for a location to shoot the yard, watch the car go backward to be spotted at the south end of the track next to the new addition. One LRV in the new addition, one on the west side and that was all in the yard. No idea if other cars in the carhouse as there was no way to see.

Photos will follow soon.
 

drum118

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April 16
More up on site.
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crs1026

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I’m trying to remember when they laid the old track and ties - What is the life expectancy of the rails and of the track bed?

- Paul
 

Northern Light

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Looking at @drum118 's shots above, I noticed how the Yard is entirely concrete. My memory was that was not the case over at Connaught, and Google seems to confirm that.

I noticed Leslie Barns does appear to be.

Greenwood (subway yard) looks like it's ballast, based on the aerial views in Google.

I know Davisville is..............

So I'm curious @crs1026 or @smallspy

Why would you want to go all-concrete in a yard; and is it worth the extra $$$.

Why some yards and not others?
 

crs1026

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^ I don't know the TTC's rationale, I had assumed it enabled rubber-tired vehicular movement through the yard. For snow clearing? Or maybe drainage?

Roncy wasn't always paved. Here's 1968. Note the more advanced snow clearing technology of the day,.

- Paul

TTC 4580 wont go.jpg
TTC S41.jpg
 

drum118

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Looking at @drum118 's shots above, I noticed how the Yard is entirely concrete. My memory was that was not the case over at Connaught, and Google seems to confirm that.

I noticed Leslie Barns does appear to be.

Greenwood (subway yard) looks like its ballast, based on the aerial views in Google.

I know Davisville is..............

So I'm curious @crs1026 or @smallspy

Why would you want to go all-concrete in a yard; and is it worth the extra $$$.

Why some yards and not others?
Connaught/Russell is to be rebuilt using concrete as it deal with issues surround foundation cause by weather. Concrete needs a storm water system for the run off which not great for the city system compare to gravel where the water sinks into the ground. Also a safety prevention for drivers and other personnel from tripping while walking to/from a car over ties or rail.

Look at any tracks that are not maintain and you will see a roller coaster line as well not straight.

TTC thinks using the new style of concrete for tracks, that there will less maintenance require over the 50-100 year time frame other than replacing the rails and switches. Rails and switches were to be replace every 20 years with some been less. The steel ties were to see 50 years and the base 75-100 years. Replacing the rails with the new style will require less out of service time so say TTC.

As far as I know, TTC has no plan for the subway yards, but all streetcars yards will see concrete. Long Branch was to see concrete and no idea where that is at these days. Humber Loops will be scrap once the new Park Lawn Loop comes on line.
 

turini2

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With the amount of things happen to this area over the next few years, there will be more posting for it here and to keep it from TTC catch all.
Can you post a link of the plans in the top post for ease of finding - just so we can orientate ourselves with the work that's going on? :)
 

drum118

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Can you post a link of the plans in the top post for ease of finding - just so we can orientate ourselves with the work that's going on? :)
That plan is in the TTC catch all thread.

Quick search with Google show this
Toronto <https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2020/ie/bgrd/backgroundfile-146573.pdf>
Steve Munro has a page on it at <https://stevemunro.ca/2020/04/18/pl...ueen-roncesvalles-and-the-queensway-for-2021/>
Toronto <https://www.toronto.ca/community-pe...uction/construction-stages-kqqr-construction/>
 

smallspy

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I’m trying to remember when they laid the old track and ties - What is the life expectancy of the rails and of the track bed?

- Paul
I want to say 1998 for that particular stretch?

The rails are the limiting factor in any installation as they are the consumable, but the TTC is aiming for about 20 to 30 years of use - dependent on where it is and usage. Curves and car stops will obviously see increased wear and have to be done more frequently, but that is to be expected and as seen in Drum's photos, can be done relatively easily and quickly.

As for the base/ties - they are hoping for 50+ years, and maybe even longer if things work out well. This system is a bit of an unknown in that respect, but the first installations in Toronto are now approaching 30 years old and seem to be holding up well.

Looking at @drum118 's shots above, I noticed how the Yard is entirely concrete. My memory was that was not the case over at Connaught, and Google seems to confirm that.

I noticed Leslie Barns does appear to be.

Greenwood (subway yard) looks like its ballast, based on the aerial views in Google.

I know Davisville is..............

So I'm curious @crs1026 or @smallspy

Why would you want to go all-concrete in a yard; and is it worth the extra $$$.

Why some yards and not others?
It's a couple of reasons. As Paul pointed out, ease of access by rubber-tired vehicles is definitely one major part of it. In the case of Roncy, with its lack of parking for employees, it was basically a requirement as almost every single square foot of excess space is used for parking.

Liability avoidance is another major one. Tracks set in concrete are far less of a tripping hazard.

The subway yards aren't likely to be concrete'd over any time soon as there are very few rubber-tired vehicles running around, and almost no one at track level. The third rail will ensure that.

Dan
 

Steve Munro

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I want to say 1998 for that particular stretch?

The rails are the limiting factor in any installation as they are the consumable, but the TTC is aiming for about 20 to 30 years of use - dependent on where it is and usage. Curves and car stops will obviously see increased wear and have to be done more frequently, but that is to be expected and as seen in Drum's photos, can be done relatively easily and quickly.

As for the base/ties - they are hoping for 50+ years, and maybe even longer if things work out well. This system is a bit of an unknown in that respect, but the first installations in Toronto are now approaching 30 years old and seem to be holding up well.


It's a couple of reasons. As Paul pointed out, ease of access by rubber-tired vehicles is definitely one major part of it. In the case of Roncy, with its lack of parking for employees, it was basically a requirement as almost every single square foot of excess space is used for parking.

Liability avoidance is another major one. Tracks set in concrete are far less of a tripping hazard.

The subway yards aren't likely to be concrete'd over any time soon as there are very few rubber-tired vehicles running around, and almost no one at track level. The third rail will ensure that.

Dan
The last reconstruction was done in 2000. There are photos of it in my April 2020 article: https://stevemunro.ca/2020/04/18/pl...ueen-roncesvalles-and-the-queensway-for-2021/ (scroll down to the gallery at the end).
 

WislaHD

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I wonder if the Sunnyside Yards have been considered for a Housing Now site.

It is a lot of land that you could potentially go pretty tall with (neighbours are a hospital and a highway), and I imagine that they should be able to figure out how to incorporate TTC maintenance operations and streetcar yard at-grade within a mixed-use development.
 

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