News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 5.5K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 26K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 2.6K     0 

MisterF

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
3,495
Reaction score
2,685
Hopefully in the three years the design of the street is revised to make the expected driver behaviour intuitive and make it next to impossible to break the rules. The pilot design, which relies on sign pollution and heavy enforcement to make it work, is fundamentally flawed.
 

TheTigerMaster

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
13,263
Reaction score
7,065
If you only look for perfection, you’re going to find misery everywhere.

The most important thing is that car volume has dropped dramatically, and congestion slowing the streetcars is basically nonexistent. This is a fine stopgap until the permanent infrastructure is installed
 

Jonny5

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
3,500
Reaction score
1,314
If anything, the streetcars now seem to be going slower than ever down King, as though the schedules are still set on the assumption that the congestion is still there. Sure, you get an occasional driver who floors it in the morning, especially before 8:00 a.m., but after that, it's really not much to write home about because of the TTC's own scheduling.

Beyond that, travellling from King and Parliament to King and University each day still feels like a chore. The vehicles still hit most, if not all of the red lights. Often they will sit at the farside stops while people slowly and continuously trickle in. They still plod through the center of the financial district mid-day because there's now 100 taxis at all times between Bay and York and for whatever reason they seem to constantly be making u-turns at all points. They still slow for the stopped delivery vehicles in the curb lanes because they are so close to entering the envelop of the streetcar lane space. The drivers seem to be under orders to drop to 10 kp/h whenever they see pedestrians whom might cross the street.
 

felix123

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Messages
327
Reaction score
456
If anything, the streetcars now seem to be going slower than ever down King, as though the schedules are still set on the assumption that the congestion is still there. Sure, you get an occasional driver who floors it in the morning, especially before 8:00 a.m., but after that, it's really not much to write home about because of the TTC's own scheduling.

Beyond that, travellling from King and Parliament to King and University each day still feels like a chore. The vehicles still hit most, if not all of the red lights. Often they will sit at the farside stops while people slowly and continuously trickle in. They still plod through the center of the financial district mid-day because there's now 100 taxis at all times between Bay and York and for whatever reason they seem to constantly be making u-turns at all points. They still slow for the stopped delivery vehicles in the curb lanes because they are so close to entering the envelop of the streetcar lane space. The drivers seem to be under orders to drop to 10 kp/h whenever they see pedestrians whom might cross the street.
Getting a driver who floors it in the morning is about the most satisfying thing you could ask for in your Toronto morning commute.

But savour it because it almost never happens.
 

innsertnamehere

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
16,807
Reaction score
15,244
City:
Toronto
Once a more permanent infrastructure configuration is built I expect compliance is going to only increase, especially if they can figure out some physical infrastructure at intersections that makes it clearer that cars have to turn right.
 

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
14,771
Reaction score
14,271
City:
Toronto
Once a more permanent infrastructure configuration is built I expect compliance is going to only increase, especially if they can figure out some physical infrastructure at intersections that makes it clearer that cars have to turn right.
Of course, figuring that out is not easy - as we have seen during the 'pilot phase'. Clearly concrete barriers in the curb lane are not enough and you really can't put them in the streetcar lane either and signage alone is clearly not enough.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
12,111
City:
Toronto
Of course, figuring that out is not easy - as we have seen during the 'pilot phase'. Clearly concrete barriers in the curb lane are not enough and you really can't put them in the streetcar lane either and signage alone is clearly not enough.

Cobblestones between the streetcar tracks, as they used be. Nudge the cars off the tracks.

WYCL_RBL.jpg

From link.
 

KevinT

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
669
Reaction score
881
City:
Toronto

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
14,771
Reaction score
14,271
City:
Toronto
Hmm, I think you've got something there. I know they wouldn't go back to actual cobblestones for maintenance reasons, but I'll bet there's a patterned concrete design they could incorporate which would maximize driver discouragement.
Do you guys not remember how cars still went up to and into the QQ streetcar tunnel even after the TTC dug fairly deep groves all along the tracks? FAR more bumpy than cobblestones.They then had to install gates which have (to date) stopped all (?) cars I think. I agree that most (all?) of the QQ tunnel folk were drunk or stoned but driving on a cobble-stoned street will simply make motorists say "those damned Toronto streets, do they never fix the potholes?"
 

max

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 7, 2018
Messages
187
Reaction score
354
City:
Toronto
Do you guys not remember how cars still went up to and into the QQ streetcar tunnel even after the TTC dug fairly deep groves all along the tracks? FAR more bumpy than cobblestones.They then had to install gates which have (to date) stopped all (?) cars I think. I agree that most (all?) of the QQ tunnel folk were drunk or stoned but driving on a cobble-stoned street will simply make motorists say "those damned Toronto streets, do they never fix the potholes?"

The more the design discourages drivers from using King the better, perfect compliance isn't a requirement here especially since there isn't a ban on cars. I suspect they want to maintain compatibility with buses which will limit their options, otherwise I'd have voted for those deep grooves, plastic bumpers in intersections that prevent straight travel and car traps along King.
 

AHK

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
1,491
Reaction score
4,671
My feeling is that any form of grooving or ribbing perpendicular to the King Street direction would be a non-starter. Toronto Fire Department, Police, and Ambulance services would not go for it. With the suspensions some of their vehicles have - it would be absolutely brutal in any emergency run.
 
  • Like
Reactions: max

Jonny5

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
3,500
Reaction score
1,314
My feeling is that any form of grooving or ribbing perpendicular to the King Street direction would be a non-starter. Toronto Fire Department, Police, and Ambulance services would not go for it. With the suspensions some of their vehicles have - it would be absolutely brutal in any emergency run.

And they seem to use King more than ever now that it's generally free of cars.
 

Top