[Riverdale Rink Rat]

The point is, the 4th largest city in North America with the economy of a small country like Toronto shouldn't have to be compared to some financially-starved industrial city in Poland. The fact the comparison is even being made demonstrates that Toronto could and should be doing better.

MisterF said it precisely, it isn't about looking like Europe. It is about raising our standards as a city. There is absolutely no reason why our downtown streets can't look like this street in Katowice.


---
Also FYI, I did in fact bike down the Leslie Spit today. It along with our trials that I biked through today are a very nice experience don't get me wrong, but they are hardly particularly special or unique to Toronto.

Your link doesn't come up on my iPad. Could you re-post?

I used to bike or mountain bike the Don, the Spit, around Cherry, up Taylor Creek every weekend from my house. Then get on a streetcar and be at work in a city of 3mn in 20 mins Monday morning. Yet I lived in a leafy suburb.

I have not seen that combo elsewhere. Maybe Munich, although it's much smaller.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Sure, here is the relink.

You really think those are uniquely Torontonian experiences? Most European and several of the nicer North American cities have extensive bike routes, park systems and many have streetcars and trams as well.

You know what Toronto is lacking however? I am assuming due to our very strict liquor laws, we have a dearth of drinkeries or taverns in our parks. Parks in Europe are filled with these establishments that are both destinations and places of social gathering. In North America we seem to have this idea that our park systems are exclusively for jogging, biking and walking the dog.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Sure, here is the relink.

You really think those are uniquely Torontonian experiences? Most European and several of the nicer North American cities have extensive bike routes, park systems and many have streetcars and trams as well.

You know what Toronto is lacking however? I am assuming due to our very strict liquor laws, we have a dearth of drinkeries or taverns in our parks. Parks in Europe are filled with these establishments that are both destinations and places of social gathering. In North America we seem to have this idea that our park systems are exclusively for jogging, biking and walking the dog.

Thanks. A fine street. I suspect when QQ is done it'll be a pretty close equivalent, and St. Lawrence/Distillery/WDL as well. (I'm sure you won't think so.)

FYI -- I have lived in Calgary; Washington, DC; Waterloo; Toronto; and Aix-en-Provence for more than a year. I have a brother who lived in Vancouver and is now in San Francisco, and friends or family in NYC/London/Paris that we have visited extensively. All of those places have great spaces and terrible spaces. My point was not to denigrate Katowice but rather to opine that you're missing out on the beauties of Toronto.

And, FWIW, the extensive ravine system and the green space that has evolved because of it is unique to Toronto, in my experience. A jog in Taylor Creek ravine on a Sunday morning in the mist and you wouldn't know you're in a city. Even Parc Mont-Royal, Central Park, or Regent Park, all unquestionably fabulous public spaces, don't provide that.

But we're cluttering up this thread, so I'll stop there, except to say that you need to get out a bit more if you don't think there are taverns in our parks -- maybe not as many as Englischer Garten, but Woodbine has a greek taverna and Le Papillon, the Islands have the Rectory, High Park has a nice restaurant. All nice patios in our parks. Cheers.

 

[MisterF]

The problem is that in Toronto a project like Queen's Quay is rare and considered special. Most major public spaces still have poured concrete sidewalks, wood hydro poles, sign clutter, and too much space dedicated to cars. In most of the developed world, streets like that one in Katowice are the norm. What we consider special is what everyone else does as a matter of routine without a second thought. Their overall standards are simply higher.

 

[RC8]

As for biking, I invite Andrew to visit Europe and see that biking is definitely not a fad, but a viable means of transportation for the masses. The only thing stopping us from achieving something similar here in Toronto is the rhetoric he and Ford champion, and our auto-crazed culture.

... and Tory.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

... and Tory.

http://civicaction.ca/

So, RC8, why does CivicAction not give Tory any credibility with those who lean left? Serious question.

General Question: Why does Tory not get painted with the Hudak brush, given that he was the leader of the Ont PCs before him? Do Torontonians perceive him as centre-right rather and the PCs moved further right under Hudak?

 

[Tea]

The narrative that drives me up the friggin' wall. I won't do it.

I've come to accept that when voting, you need to consider the candidates as well as the form of voting system in that particular election. If Ford and Tory are neck-and-neck, with Chow way way behind, then voting for Tory will be the only meaningful thing to do- IF your biggest priority is, like mine, avoiding another Ford victory.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Toronto is never going to look like Europe as we don't have (a) 1000 years of history as a city nor (b) large city centres that were bombed to oblivion 80 years ago. We'll have to muddle through without both. We're neither plagued with an auto-centric culture nor a small-city mentality, although we're aspiring to Manhattan/Chicago/San Francisco/Vancouver for our downtown living space rather than Paris/London.

The plague that was Ford was a blip, and a rather ineffective blip.

I know forums are great places to lament, whinge, and complain, but Toronto is doing a great job at being a growing, dynamic city.

Check out the Spit, or WDL, or HarbourFront, or the new condos and infrastructure to the west of downtown, etc., etc., etc. Toronto deserves to be celebrated.

The irony is that Europe took the PCC streetcar from North America and it spread all over both western and especially in eastern Europe. See link. Eventually, other streetcars evolved in Europe, so that now Toronto has to import streetcar designs from across the ocean.

 

[jml]

There's not enough exciting talk of ITOs and police investigations in this thread so far.

 

[RC8]

http://civicaction.ca/

So, RC8, why does CivicAction not give Tory any credibility with those who lean left? Serious question.

For me it's not about 'leaning left' or right, but about having a mayor who can look at problems objectively and lead experts towards finding adequate solutions to those problems while allowing local communities a say.

Boris Johnson or Michael Bloomberg definitely fall within the 'global right' in the political spectrum but both of them employed experts to objectively work towards a betterment of their cities' quality of life.

Tory on the other hand has shown a blatant disregard for the state of the art in urban planning and municipal administration pretty much from day one. His transit plan is grotesquely inadequate, and he will go great lengths to defend car-centric street design. I have yet to hear him say anything insightful about the issues that a mayor actually has to face.

Tory might win by projecting an image and narrative of himself as the right man for the job, but if you look at his proposals carefully most of them are basically champagne populism. His is a personal project based on one man's inductive and emotional understanding of the world, and his involvement with a charity organisation does not change that.

General Question: Why does Tory not get painted with the Hudak brush, given that he was the leader of the Ont PCs before him? Do Torontonians perceive him as centre-right rather and the PCs moved further right under Hudak?

Hudak and Ford + Tory actively campaigning on being the 'centre', or rather, 'forward' candidate.

 

[salsa]

http://civicaction.ca/

So, RC8, why does CivicAction not give Tory any credibility with those who lean left? Serious question.

- Against Eglinton Connects
- Against tearing down the gardiner
- Against anything and everything that increases commute times (for drivers)
- Proposes fantasy transit financing schemes
- Supports island airport expansion
- Supports scarborough subway but not DRL
- No cycling strategy

Doesn't sound like a platform that CivicAction would endorse.

 

[PinkLucy]

Tory was asked about airport expansion the other day. He does not support it. He has questions that at this time make his stance "no expansion". He said there are too many unknowns currently.

But that's just one piece in that list

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Tory was asked about airport expansion the other day. He does not support it. He has questions that at this time make his stance "no expansion". He said there are too many unknowns currently.

But that's just one piece in that list

He is smart. If he fully adopts David Soknacki's position on the Island Airport, then I can see him attracting enough progressives to seal the election.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Tory was asked about airport expansion the other day. He does not support it. He has questions that at this time make his stance "no expansion". He said there are too many unknowns currently.

But that's just one piece in that list

PinkLucy, do you have a link or remember where that Q&A took place? I looked at his website and Googled it, but no love (except an article from April where he says 'wait until the report comes out.')

 

[PinkLucy]

It was at a candidates' meeting held at a condo in the Fort York area on Saturday night. Audience member asked him about his airport stance.

Soknacki and Chow also said no to airport expansion. Ford cancelled at the last minute, much to the annoyance of some selfie seekers.

And yes, his stance his "no for now" and no until more questions are answered re number of flights and how traffic will be handled.