[EastYorkTTCFan]

exit door buttons

maybe but will probably be disabled as they are in Kitchener and probably will be on Eglington too. It's easier to have all the doors open at stops than have people who don't know that they have to push a button to open the door.

security cameras

Probably but all transit vehicles in Toronto have those now

LED wayfinding signs

probably not since we haven't seen anything that would indicate it, especially with how Metrolinks likes to post about everything

USB plugs,

maybe but does anyone actually use them? If you don't carry around a long enough cord for them they are pointless. Also, most people have their own portable chargers with them anyway.

WiFi

maybe but who knows, again since there hasn't been anything released by Metrolinks I wouldn't hope for it.

 

[dowlingm]

The irony in all of this is that Metrolinx shifted the procurement to Alstom (at taxpayer expense) because ML believed they could build the Crosstown faster than Bombardier could manufacture trams.

Who looks foolish now?

- Paul

Bombardier, for mishandling critical contracts multiple times and only getting their act together when business they expected to fall into their lap as national champion got awarded elsewhere.

 

[TossYourJacket]

Bombardier, for mishandling critical contracts multiple times and only getting their act together when business they expected to fall into their lap as national champion got awarded elsewhere.

To say nothing of the fact Bombardier is now part of Alstom.

 

[valvenis]

maybe but will probably be disabled as they are in Kitchener and probably will be on Eglington too. It's easier to have all the doors open at stops than have people who don't know that they have to push a button to open the door.

1. People can learn.
2. On St. Clair people have to press buttons to open the door.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

1. People can learn.
2. On St. Clair people have to press buttons to open the door.

I don't really see why we need to have them on line 5 or 6. Plus i think they have already said that both them and the request stop buttons won't be in use. They will be making every stop and all of the doors will open at all stops.

On all of the streetcar routes you are supposed to use the button to open the doors but because people don't know that or are too stupid to understand that they usually open all of the doors.

 

[T3G]

I don't really see why we need to have them on line 5 or 6

For the same reason they should be in use on any transit vehicle besides a two door bus. Opening all the doors when it's unnecessary to do so wastes time, and in inclement weather cools off the passenger compartment unnecessarily.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

For the same reason they should be in use on any transit vehicle besides a two door bus. Opening all the doors when it's unnecessary to do so wastes time, and in inclement weather cools off the passenger compartment unnecessarily

Who's time does it waste by opening all of the doors? If anything it wastes time for the people who are trying to get out because someone isn't pushing a stupid button to open the door.

The weather argument is pointless because people will be standing outside in it anyway.

Both of those arguments are unlikely to make them active them at all.

 

[T3G]

Who's time does it waste by opening all of the doors? If anything it wastes time for the people who are trying to get out because someone isn't pushing a stupid button to open the door.

The vehicle pulls into a station. Doors enabled. No one is getting off. The driver hits the door disable button, and off we go.

If the doors get opened when they don't need to be, you now have to wait for the doors to close, which objectively takes more time than it does to not have the door open at all. Add in sensitive motion mechanisms that are triggered by a strong gust of wind (this was a problem on the TR trains in their early days), and any ridiculous modifications like the TTC made to their Flexity doors to make them close even slower, and the time builds.

As for someone standing there, that's why you have education campaigns about it. If people can figure out how to operate elevator button doors, and people all over Europe operate doors by buttons without any difficulty, there is zero reason why they can't figure it out here, too. I know that stupidity has become a cornerstone of modern North American culture, but if our institutions actually challenged the unwashed masses and forced them to actually think a little bit about what it is that they're doing, it might actually be a net positive for our civilization.

The weather argument is pointless because people will be standing outside in it anyway.

By that logic, we might as well not bother with the expense of turning on the heat inside too, no?

Sometimes it's inevitable that people will need to get on through the doors. If there is no one, why blast the passengers inside with cold air? It's little things like this that can make taking transit a more positive experience at little to no cost.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The vehicle pulls into a station. Doors enabled. No one is getting off. The driver hits the door disable button, and off we go.

And if somebody is waiting for someone to push the button but they aren't near it and nobody does i guess they are stuck on the train. I don't really get why people are obsessed with this idea that opening the doors is a bad thing.

If the doors get opened when they don't need to be, you now have to wait for the doors to close, which objectively takes more time than it does to not have the door open at all. Add in sensitive motion mechanisms that are triggered by a strong gust of wind (this was a problem on the TR trains in their early days), and any ridiculous modifications like the TTC made to their Flexity doors to make them close even slower, and the time builds.

Huh? Now your just making up stuff to prove a point. All of that is just negligible in the long run and a part of day to day operations. Having someone pushing a button makes no difference at all.

As for someone standing there, that's why you have education campaigns about it. If people can figure out how to operate elevator button doors, and people all over Europe operate doors by buttons without any difficulty, there is zero reason why they can't figure it out here, too. I know that stupidity has become a cornerstone of modern North American culture, but if our institutions actually challenged the unwashed masses and forced them to actually think a little bit about what it is that they're doing, it might actually be a net positive for our civilization

Right so we should just do what they do in Europe because they do everything better there. Educatioing the public about using a button is a waste of time and money and resources when you can just disable it and open all of the doors like people expect you to.

By that logic, we might as well not bother with the expense of turning on the heat inside too, no?

Sometimes it's inevitable that people will need to get on through the doors. If there is no one, why blast the passengers inside with cold air? It's little things like this that can make taking transit a more positive experience at little to no cost.

Nobody cares about weather or not cold or hot air gets in the train. There is no one way to solve the problem of cold air or hot air getting into the train. Either way you will have people who complain that the doors are open or they won't open.

 

[T3G]

And if somebody is waiting for someone to push the button but they aren't near it and nobody does i guess they are stuck on the train. I don't really get why people are obsessed with this idea that opening the doors is a bad thing.

You know people can get up and move in the direction of the doors, right? Why would you expect somebody to push the button open on your behalf? When you're riding the buses now, do you expect someone else to request the stop for you, or do you do it?

Huh? Now your just making up stuff to prove a point.

An example of an operational difficulty that the TRs faced when new is made up? The modification that the TTC DID make to their Flexity doors is made up?

All of that is just negligible in the long run and a part of day to day operations. Having someone pushing a button makes no difference at all.

That is your opinion. While you are out here making this argument, I would like to ask you if you think that the present bus services should stop at every single stop, even if no one is getting off, and throw open both doors. And if not, why not? If you are opposed to this practice being put into place, then you will understand why having door requests enabled would be more efficient, too.

Right so we should just do what they do in Europe because they do everything better there

Yes! This is extremely obvious if you travel to literally any town or city of any consequence in Europe.

open all of the doors like people expect you to.

Expectations can be changed. 50 years ago, people expected someone else to operate elevators on their behalf.

Nobody cares about weather or not cold or hot air gets in the train.

Is that a fact? Have you interviewed everyone who's ever sat next to an open door on a transit vehicle and asked them if they object to a blast of cold air everytime the doors open?

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

You know people can get up and move in the direction of the doors, right? Why would you expect somebody to push the button open on your behalf? When you're riding the buses now, do you expect someone else to request the stop for you, or do you do it?

Yes people can do that but what if someone is blocking the door and they are waiting for the driver to open the doors because they don't know about having to push a button or can't for some reason.

An example of an operational difficulty that the TRs faced when new is made up? The modification that the TTC DID make to their Flexity doors is made up?

So because of that we should make it harder for people to exit? I don't really see how having someone pushing a button helps.

That is your opinion. While you are out here making this argument, I would like to ask you if you think that the present bus services should stop at every single stop, even if no one is getting off, and throw open both doors. And if not, why not? If you are opposed to this practice being put into place, then you will understand why having door requests enabled would be more efficient, too

A bus is completely different to both line 5 and 6 they are intended to operate as a rapid transit line in the same way as the subway does now and make all stops. They have already said that they won't be making any stops on request and it will stop at all stops so why would you need a stop request button?

Yes! This is extremely obvious if you travel to literally any town or city of any consequence in Europe.

If it's so good then move there. The everything is better in Europe argument is just stupid.

Expectations can be changed. 50 years ago, people expected someone else to operate elevators on their behalf.

Right so what's next the public will be expected to operate the trains as well. At least by your logic.

Is that a fact? Have you interviewed everyone who's ever sat next to an open door on a transit vehicle and asked them if they object to a blast of cold air everytime the doors open?

Have you done that then too so you know that everyone active does care or are you making an assumption that because you personally don't like it everyone doesn't?

 

[Aplus23]

Again as probably the most casual transit enthusiasts on here, the doors opening at every stop is definitely not as cumbersome as some make it out to be.

It's an expectation that every train will stop at a station stop, even if empty. On streetcars like at st clair, that expectation isn't there because in Toronto we don't look at the streetcar the same as we do subways(above, below or at grade)

The crosstown will be looked at and operated as a subway, even the at grade sections.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Again as probably the most casual transit enthusiasts on here, the doors opening at every stop is definitely not as cumbersome as some make it out to be.

It's an expectation that every train will stop at a station stop, even if empty. On streetcars like at st clair, that expectation isn't there because in Toronto we don't look at the streetcar the same as we do subways(above, below or at grade)

The crosstown will be looked at and operated as a subway, even the at grade sections.

And this is exactly what I was trying to point out but apparently because in Europe you have to push a button at every station we need to do that too because it "saves time and people don't get too cold".

 

[T3G]

Yes people can do that but what if someone is blocking the door and they are waiting for the driver to open the doors because they don't know about having to push a button or can't for some reason.

A) the doors on every LRT are wide enough that one person standing there isn't going to block another person from standing next to them, and there's nothing stopping that person from taking initiative for their own life and opening the door themselves. Or speaking up and letting the confused passenger know what the deal is.
B)

As for someone standing there, that's why you have education campaigns about it

So because of that we should make it harder for people to exit?

Yeah, cause pushing a button is a real insurmountable challenge.

A bus is completely different to both line 5 and 6 they are intended to operate as a rapid transit line in the same way as the subway does now and make all stops. They have already said that they won't be making any stops on request and it will stop at all stops so why would you need a stop request button?

Having a vehicle stop, and then depart again a few seconds later instead of opening its doors is still faster than opening the doors and closing them.

As for not having any request stops, don't get me started on that.

If it's so good then move there. The everything is better in Europe argument is just stupid.

What a typically Torontonian attitude. Any and all suggestions to improve transit European style are immediately dismissed because we're not in Europe, as though European cities exist in a reality of their own. It's not as though Europe is a diverse continent made up of many nations, all of which - quelle surprise - manage to make certain universal transit solutions work despite their differences, right?

Right so what's next the public will be expected to operate the trains as well. At least by your logic.

Slippery slope fallacy. But this explains a little bit more about your ideology when it comes to this opposition. Let me guess, you're not paid to do the job of a train driver, right? Someone else should just do it for you? And you don't get paid either, I take it, to be an elevator operator, yes?

Have you done that then too so you know that everyone active does care or are you making an assumption that because you personally don't like it everyone doesn't?

I don't think it's controversial to suggest that most people don't enjoy a blast of cold air in their face and I do not view it as being at all necessary to back that stance up, anymore than I need to justify that most people don't enjoy being punched in the face. But your assertion that people don't care about cold being let into the vehicle superfluously is one that requires some numbers behind it.

 

[duffo]

I think the business case for keeping the heat inside the LRVs to reduce heating costs in the winter is a much more compelling case for why the consortium would lean towards button-activated doors. The profit is the motive, not necessary the rider.