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NoahB

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I'd prefer something like that obviously though I feel safer in subway stations knowing there is an attendant not too far away.

I think mentally we treat lrt/streetcar differently than subways and it's death by 1000 cuts.

If you look at schedules like the 512 st clair the frequency is way down from 20 years ago, and still lower than when it was just flexites scheduled.
Even with the covid schedule it's rare to wait more than 6 or 7 mins for a train after hours.

I was at st clair and and dufferin for half an hour on the weekend and didn't see one eastbound streetcar. I feel like finch west will be worse especially since they'll likely run pairs of cars and have even worse headways (in practice)
They will be running single cars. Trains will be scheduled to run every 5-7 minutes during peak hours and every 7-10 minutes during off-peak hours.
 

turbanplanner

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They will be running single cars. Trains will be scheduled to run every 5-7 minutes during peak hours and every 7-10 minutes during off-peak hours.
Yeah I saw the post from 2020 but I don't believe this will be the reality based on every other transit line in the GTA. Even if they do run 8 trains off peak I'm still afraid of bunching etc.

The 512 route should come roughly every 6 mins. But I've spent 30 without it showing up.
 

turbanplanner

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Because the push behind the subways was never based on facts or logic. They were, and are, populist soundbites to rile up suburbanites against downtown dwellers.
I'd say they're based on the fact that the TTC always cuts streetcar service. How often are streetcars short turned vs subways?
When I rode a few years ago I had about 40% of the streetcars I take short turn in the winter at dundas and lansdowne when it was -10C outside.
Yeah the subway will short turn occasionally but I'm not stuck outside at 10pm in the winter.
How often do people wait 20+ mins for a streetcar vs a train?

I don't support the SSE but even with a dedicated line it's normal to wait 10-15 mins at kennedy from getting off the BD line to sitting on the SRT.

Understanding this helps understand why people want a system that "doesn't make sense" from a planning perspective.
 

T3G

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I'd say they're based on the fact that the TTC always cuts streetcar service. How often are streetcars short turned vs subways?
When I rode a few years ago I had about 40% of the streetcars I take short turn in the winter at dundas and lansdowne when it was -10C outside.
Yeah the subway will short turn occasionally but I'm not stuck outside at 10pm in the winter.
How often do people wait 20+ mins for a streetcar vs a train?

I don't support the SSE but even with a dedicated line it's normal to wait 10-15 mins at kennedy from getting off the BD line to sitting on the SRT.

Understanding this helps understand why people want a system that "doesn't make sense" from a planning perspective.
Those are all valid concerns, but there has never been any public acknowledgement, to the best of my knowledge, of this being the driving ideology behind the push for subways. Every soundbite from every politician I have been able to find has not shed any concerns about the reliability and value, or lack thereof, of the present streetcar network, it's always been about ensuring Scarberians don't feel like "second class citizens" and how it's not fair that the latte sipping downtown dwelling liberal elites get their subway trains while Scarborough doesn't.

If they had actually pointed out of all of these valid concerns with the present streetcar network, that may have actually been useful. It could've started a dialogue about what we expect from such vehicles in this city, how we can avoid that happening on the SRT replacement, and perhaps been beneficial for the legacy system in the inner city, too. But alas, they chose to forego the interesting, thought provoking discussion in favour of complaints which are on the same level as pointing at a Japanese bullet train, and asking "How come the Forest Hill bus doesn't run like that?"

Such is the state of discourse in this city, regrettably.
 

jamincan

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LemonCondo

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it's always been about ensuring Scarberians don't feel like "second class citizens" and how it's not fair that the latte sipping downtown dwelling liberal elites get their subway trains while Scarborough doesn't.

Explain the Eglinton East LRT then. In my eyes it should be elevated. (We can sort out the bit in the middle eventually.) I don't understand why Vancouver can do this and Toronto can't.
 

T3G

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Explain the Eglinton East LRT then.
What are you asking me to explain? Why there wasn't as much pushback?

My theory is that it fell through the cracks, it was nowhere near as prominent as the SSE debate as that concerned the replacement of a pre-existing transit line. It's also very possible that a lot of people stopped paying attention because Transit City, and its offshoots, were cancelled / changed so many times it became difficult to keep track of what exactly is going on.
 

Amare

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With the colder weather, GRT will require you to push the button starting Nov. 1.

Only something we can dream of in Toronto unfortunately, the clowns at TTC management would never even think of something so innovative. Instead they'll probably slow down the timing on the door closing even more then they already have.

Let's see how the TTC chooses to screw around with the Finch operations in 2 years.
 

TossYourJacket

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Only something we can dream of in Toronto unfortunately, the clowns at TTC management would never even think of something so innovative. Instead they'll probably slow down the timing on the door closing even more then they already have.

Let's see how the TTC chooses to screw around with the Finch operations in 2 years.
Given we are so special and unique in Toronto that we cannot ever learn from other cities, I'm sure we can instead conduct 3-6 studies on door buttons over the next decade before creating a "Made-In-Toronto" solution.
 

toronto647

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Scarborough gets a Subway to Malvern (Sheppard East), Flemo and Thorncliffe get a Subway in the first phase of the DRL. Priority neighbourhoods won this round. I'm not upset.

Interesting discussion I recently had with various community leaders in Flemo / Thorncliffe Park. The topic was whether if these priority neighbourhoods really won out or whether it has expedited Gentrification within the neighbourhood. With the Eglinton LRT we can see Gentrification has quickly sped up and lots of tear downs and low income / social housing folks getting displaced in Flemo. My bet is Ontario Line will be the final blow and rip apart Flemo fully and a good amount of Thorncliffe Park. The land is very close to Downtown and just to valuable to rent out for social housing and low rent.

So is it really a big win for these neighbourhoods or just bringing their expiry date closure ?? Interested to hear yours and others thoughts.

Below is an image of the Don Mills and Eglinton area. Blue buildings are under construction and Purple are soon to be started once approved. I suspect more developments / TOC around the Ontario Line North stations soon.

IMG_0351.JPG
 

turbanplanner

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Those are all valid concerns, but there has never been any public acknowledgement, to the best of my knowledge, of this being the driving ideology behind the push for subways. Every soundbite from every politician I have been able to find has not shed any concerns about the reliability and value, or lack thereof, of the present streetcar network, it's always been about ensuring Scarberians don't feel like "second class citizens" and how it's not fair that the latte sipping downtown dwelling liberal elites get their subway trains while Scarborough doesn't.

If they had actually pointed out of all of these valid concerns with the present streetcar network, that may have actually been useful. It could've started a dialogue about what we expect from such vehicles in this city, how we can avoid that happening on the SRT replacement, and perhaps been beneficial for the legacy system in the inner city, too. But alas, they chose to forego the interesting, thought provoking discussion in favour of complaints which are on the same level as pointing at a Japanese bullet train, and asking "How come the Forest Hill bus doesn't run like that?"

Such is the state of discourse in this city, regrettably.
You always have to read between the lines. The city has a really bad track record of
Interesting discussion I recently had with various community leaders in Flemo / Thorncliffe Park. The topic was whether if these priority neighbourhoods really won out or whether it has expedited Gentrification within the neighbourhood. With the Eglinton LRT we can see Gentrification has quickly sped up and lots of tear downs and low income / social housing folks getting displaced in Flemo. My bet is Ontario Line will be the final blow and rip apart Flemo fully and a good amount of Thorncliffe Park. The land is very close to Downtown and just to valuable to rent out for social housing and low rent.

So is it really a big win for these neighbourhoods or just bringing their expiry date closure ?? Interested to hear yours and others thoughts.

Below is an image of the Don Mills and Eglinton area. Blue buildings are under construction and Purple are soon to be started once approved. I suspect more developments / TOC around the Ontario Line North stations soon.

View attachment 435093
The more built the better. We can't play a game of we need density, and say no to every single spot it is possible to.
 

toronto647

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You always have to read between the lines. The city has a really bad track record of

The more built the better. We can't play a game of we need density, and say no to every single spot it is possible to.
I was referring to tearing down social housing and low income housing in Flemo and gentrifying and putting $1500 p/sqf condos in its place. Thus in essence getting rid of the low income earners mainly immigrants and them getting displaced. What is the point of 2 Subway lines for this community if they are going to lose their homes now.

You get my point?
 

LemonCondo

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I was referring to tearing down social housing and low income housing in Flemo and gentrifying and putting $1500 p/sqf condos in its place. Thus in essence getting rid of the low income earners mainly immigrants and them getting displaced. What is the point of 2 Subway lines for this community if they are going to lose their homes now.

You get my point?

Of course, we need to build more public housing. More affordable housing. More co-op housing. We need to allow density everywhere, not just on major streets. And we need to build more transit lines. But this is not an argument for *not* building transit lines.
 

superelevation

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Because the push behind the subways was never based on facts or logic. They were, and are, populist soundbites to rile up suburbanites against downtown dwellers.
Depends on who you ask, I am sure that people might want subways knowing they would instead be getting St. Clair++, which does not have the speed, or frequency of the subway. Suggesting that anyone wanting subways was "illogical" is a pretty bad Toronto tendency, a lot of people in the suburbs ride the bus to the subway and 100% want the subway to come closer to them.
 

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