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Rainforest

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Interesting discussion I recently had with various community leaders in Flemo / Thorncliffe Park. The topic was whether if these priority neighbourhoods really won out or whether it has expedited Gentrification within the neighbourhood. With the Eglinton LRT we can see Gentrification has quickly sped up and lots of tear downs and low income / social housing folks getting displaced in Flemo. My bet is Ontario Line will be the final blow and rip apart Flemo fully and a good amount of Thorncliffe Park. The land is very close to Downtown and just to valuable to rent out for social housing and low rent.

So is it really a big win for these neighbourhoods or just bringing their expiry date closure ?? Interested to hear yours and others thoughts.

Below is an image of the Don Mills and Eglinton area. Blue buildings are under construction and Purple are soon to be started once approved. I suspect more developments / TOC around the Ontario Line North stations soon.

View attachment 435093

Feels like an unwinnable situation for low-income neighborhoods. If they get no new transit, they continue to struggle. If they get transit improvements, the residents get displaced.
 

Steve X

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Depends on who you ask, I am sure that people might want subways knowing they would instead be getting St. Clair++, which does not have the speed, or frequency of the subway. Suggesting that anyone wanting subways was "illogical" is a pretty bad Toronto tendency, a lot of people in the suburbs ride the bus to the subway and 100% want the subway to come closer to them.
I’m sure a lot is people on Finch would be happy for this 536+++. At least they don’t have to walk half a km and down 3 flights of stairs with groceries to their next destination.

Surely they can eventually build a surface subway in the hydro corridor for those who need it.
 

T3G

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Depends on who you ask, I am sure that people might want subways knowing they would instead be getting St. Clair++, which does not have the speed, or frequency of the subway. Suggesting that anyone wanting subways was "illogical" is a pretty bad Toronto tendency, a lot of people in the suburbs ride the bus to the subway and 100% want the subway to come closer to them.
My point is that there are many forms of rapid transit. Giving Scarborough the most expensive one is a bad value proposition, not to mention it takes away monies that could be used on other, more constructive things.
 

AlxOptimism

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I was referring to tearing down social housing and low income housing in Flemo and gentrifying and putting $1500 p/sqf condos in its place. Thus in essence getting rid of the low income earners mainly immigrants and them getting displaced. What is the point of 2 Subway lines for this community if they are going to lose their homes now.

You get my point?
I'm confused... doesn't Toronto require 100% rental replacement at the previous cost of rent? And we have rent control in Ontario... renovictions are a thing but really who else is being displaced?
 

AlxOptimism

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Ontario is also taking action to help streamline the construction and revitalization of our aging rental housing stock that in some cases is many decades old, grossly energy inefficient, and is starting to fail. As it stands, under the Municipal Act and City of Toronto Act, municipalities may enact bylaws to prohibit and regulate the demolition or conversion of multi-unit residential rental properties of six units or more. These by-laws vary among municipalities and can include requirements that may limit access to housing or pose as barriers to creating housing supply. Ontario will be launching consultations on potential regulations to enable greater standardization of these municipal by-laws, while ensuring that renter protections and landlord accountabilities remain in place.
This is pretty vague so we'll see what happens
 

TossYourJacket

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My point is that there are many forms of rapid transit. Giving Scarborough the most expensive one is a bad value proposition, not to mention it takes away monies that could be used on other, more constructive things.
Yup. And often the choice is portrayed as "streetcar with no priority" vs "underground subway", which entirely ignores the idea of LRTs that actually get priority over cars, or even elevated transit lines. The absurd desire to bury everything in this city is insane, Eglinton West could have been 100% elevated but SUBWAYS SUBWAYS SUBWAYS. We didn't even try and find a way to built the SSE above ground cus of politics. It's so frustrating.
 

turbanplanner

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I was referring to tearing down social housing and low income housing in Flemo and gentrifying and putting $1500 p/sqf condos in its place. Thus in essence getting rid of the low income earners mainly immigrants and them getting displaced. What is the point of 2 Subway lines for this community if they are going to lose their homes now.

You get my point?
I get the problem but are we building subway lines for specific people? Or to make the city less of a nightmare overall?
 

TossYourJacket

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I was referring to tearing down social housing and low income housing in Flemo and gentrifying and putting $1500 p/sqf condos in its place. Thus in essence getting rid of the low income earners mainly immigrants and them getting displaced. What is the point of 2 Subway lines for this community if they are going to lose their homes now.

You get my point?
That's better addressed by legislation around rent increases, rental redevelopment/replacement units, and affordable housing, than any policy specific to the building of transit lines.
 

turbanplanner

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Depends on who you ask, I am sure that people might want subways knowing they would instead be getting St. Clair++, which does not have the speed, or frequency of the subway. Suggesting that anyone wanting subways was "illogical" is a pretty bad Toronto tendency, a lot of people in the suburbs ride the bus to the subway and 100% want the subway to come closer to them.
This is so true! I know people in Scarborough and Rexdale who ride the bus for 50 mins to Warden or Islington only to take the subway another hour.

Even the crosstown will still mean 3 vehicles for most of those people. Wonder with ATC is there a chance the Shepard line extension or BD would interline to union?
 

TossYourJacket

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This is so true! I know people in Scarborough and Rexdale who ride the bus for 50 mins to Warden or Islington only to take the subway another hour.

Even the crosstown will still mean 3 vehicles for most of those people. Wonder with ATC is there a chance the Shepard line extension or BD would interline to union?
Doubtful. The TTC seems to hate the idea of interlining. BD is certainly unlikely as it would dramatically reduce frequency on Line 1 to downtown below Eglinton which is a non-starter. Sheppard is trickier but if Yonge North demand exceeds demand on Line 4, it's unlikely they'd divert trains. ATC seems to be a solution to the existing capacity issues, not something that will create so much capacity we can redesign the service to allow interlining.
 

T3G

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Wonder with ATC is there a chance the Shepard line extension or BD would interline to union?
ATC wouldn't solve the issues that were inherent in the 1966 interlining experiment, so not likely.

The track geometry at Sheppard-Yonge is such that any connection from the Yonge line to the Sheppard line bypasses the station altogether, so any such service pattern would also have extremely limited value.
 

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