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drum118

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felix123

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If the revised design and further flexibility with the alignment doesn't appease the east-enders, Montreal is headed for a Scarborough subway extension style-logjam, much like the blue line extension. Boggles the mind that people would vote against their own interests. Why are there so many stupid people in this world?
 

p_xavier

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If the revised design and further flexibility with the alignment doesn't appease the east-enders, Montreal is headed for a Scarborough subway extension style-logjam, much like the blue line extension. Boggles the mind that people would vote against their own interests. Why are there so many stupid people in this world?
The media is feeding the hate.
 

Xav

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If the revised design and further flexibility with the alignment doesn't appease the east-enders, Montreal is headed for a Scarborough subway extension style-logjam, much like the blue line extension. Boggles the mind that people would vote against their own interests. Why are there so many stupid people in this world?
Maybe calling them stupid isn't a good place to start if you want to make a point... Their priorities are not yours and you should respect that.

You're missing the point. People don't really want this to be abandoned, they just want REM East to be improved. They'll advocate for more extreme outcomes (no projects or fully underground) and will be very happy to compromise on some middle ground solution. It worked so far, so why stop?

We're at the end of the process. You'll see: Québec will fund the billion dollar urban renewal project, Montréal will get some kind of decision making seat at a table, and we'll probably see some more cosmetic improvements.

I would be surprised if they announce more underground stuff, but who knows. It's an election year.
 
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felix123

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Maybe calling them stupid isn't a good place to start if you want to make a point... Their priorities are not yours and you should respect that.

You're missing the point. People don't really want this to be abandoned, they just want REM East to be improved. They'll advocate for more extreme outcomes (no projects or fully underground) and will be very happy to compromise on some middle ground solution. It worked so far, so why stop?

We're at the end of the process. You'll see: Québec will fund the billion dollar urban renewal project, Montréal will get some kind of decision making seat at a table, and we'll probably see some more cosmetic improvements.

I would be surprised if they announce more underground stuff, but who knows. It's an election year.
I don't respect their priorities, because for several months of the year I live in the proposed REM-B corridor, and continued opposition to the line is going to get it cancelled or delayed for decades.
Then we'll have no rapid transit at all.
 

Xav

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I don't respect their priorities
Then maybe you should leave the big city and move to a large piece of land where you'll be alone and won't have to deal with other people's opinions...

Public debate is healthy, and I encourage you to go to those public forums and advocate for the line as it is. Make your voice heard, that's how things change (or stay the same).
 

Obsidian

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Maybe calling them stupid isn't a good place to start if you want to make a point... Their priorities are not yours and you should respect that.

You're missing the point. People don't really want this to be abandoned, they just want REM East to be improved. They'll advocate for more extreme outcomes (no projects or fully underground) and will be very happy to compromise on some middle ground solution. It worked so far, so why stop?

We're at the end of the process. You'll see: Québec will fund the billion dollar urban renewal project, Montréal will get some kind of decision making seat at a table, and we'll probably see some more cosmetic improvements.

I would be surprised if they announce more underground stuff, but who knows. It's an election year.
"Improving" it means making it too expensive to build in both more cost and time.
 

felix123

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Then maybe you should leave the big city and move to a large piece of land where you'll be alone and won't have to deal with other people's opinions...

Public debate is healthy, and I encourage you to go to those public forums and advocate for the line as it is. Make your voice heard, that's how things change (or stay the same).
No thanks, I'm not going to leave the city over a difference of opinion. I would be too lonely out on my "large piece of land" to advocate for an expeditiously-built REM-B.
 

Xav

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"Improving" it means making it too expensive to build in both more cost and time.
So far they've added 500m underground downtown, several kms underground in Montreal North, changed the route through Tétraultville. Those are actually good improvements. Don't you realize that if nobody opposed the project CDPQi wouldn't have accepted those changes?
 

ARG1

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So far they've added 500m underground downtown, several kms underground in Montreal North, changed the route through Tétraultville. Those are actually good improvements. Don't you realize that if nobody opposed the project CDPQi wouldn't have accepted those changes?
And how many people have been satisfied by these changes? How many people who were against the project before are now saying "ok, this is good, now we're happy". The answer is not a lot. While some of these changes might be good changes, how effective were they at swaying public opinion towards this project? If the answer is "very few", then the reality is you're basically trying to appease a crowd that refuses to be appeased. Think the folks at Leslieville in Toronto, and how they're going absolutely haywire over losing an insignificant strip of parkland, and for gasp, having trains run in a rail corridor that has existed probably before their great grandparents were born. These folks are generally not interested in having genuine dialogue, or agreeing on a reasonable compromise.
 

Xav

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And how many people have been satisfied by these changes? How many people who were against the project before are now saying "ok, this is good, now we're happy". The answer is not a lot. While some of these changes might be good changes, how effective were they at swaying public opinion towards this project? If the answer is "very few", then the reality is you're basically trying to appease a crowd that refuses to be appeased. Think the folks at Leslieville in Toronto, and how they're going absolutely haywire over losing an insignificant strip of parkland, and for gasp, having trains run in a rail corridor that has existed probably before their great grandparents were born. These folks are generally not interested in having genuine dialogue, or agreeing on a reasonable compromise.
There will always be hard-liners who won't sway. They also tend to be the ones we hear about the most, but I can tell you a lot of people agree with the changes. I personally do. I think CDPQi and the government got the message and that's the important part. I'm involved in a community group here in Ville-Marie opposed to the project as a whole and after the last announcement they lost a lot of people who are actually happy with what's proposed.

A minister literally said that the mayor was "polluting" the lives of drivers in his city and complained that the tramway project will make it longer for people from outside Quebec City to come and visit... This government is out of control.
 

felix123

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A minister literally said that the mayor was "polluting" the lives of drivers in his city and complained that the tramway project will make it longer for people from outside Quebec City to come and visit... This government is out of control.
This is bold even for the CAQ, and I'm surprised they'd stomp on a transit project in Québec City so close to an election.

Of course the nationalists are scrambling to defend the CAQ now. I really thought the tram was politically safe.
 

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