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steveintoronto

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It should be noted that all of OC Transpo's operations, including the buses are federally regulated. For example, AODA doesn't apply to OC Transpo, though they follow it in spirit.
This is interesting information, Catenary, and there's no shortage of indirect references to this, with strikes, disability access issues, and a number of other technicalities, but I finally found the common denominator:
[...]A unique and significant feature of the transit
system operated by OC Transpo is that it is a “federal undertaking” and thus subject to a variety
of federal labour laws and related legislation, such as the
Canada Labour Code,
and the
Canadian
Human Rights Code.
This situation arises by virtue of the
Constitution Act,
which provides that
the federal Parliament has authority over interprovincial modes of transportation. In 1983, the
Ontario Court of Appeal confirmed that OC Transpo was a federal undertaking and therefore
subject to the jurisdiction of the federal government.[...]
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/archives/rmoc/Regional_Council/11Mar98/Jtcomp.pdf

It makes for some odd situations, like drivers getting Federal Holidays off, but it also mandates regulation of the line by Transport Canada, who have set a number of precedents, one of them having to be signalling.
[...] The pilot project is unique by North American standards and involves four “firsts.” It is the first time that light rail passenger trains had been mixed with heavy rail traffic on an existing rail network, and the first time passenger rail services had been operated by a single operator. In addition, this was the first time Bombardier Talent DMU trains had been used anywhere in North America, and the first trains driven by bus operators.
[...]
Transport Canada worked with the city to develop an operating plan that met federal legislation requirements under the Rail Safety Act. The plan includes operating rules, emergency procedures, employee training programs, and a Safety Management System.
[...]
Signalling system. The existing Automatic Block Signal (ABS) system was overhauled as it was antiquated and did not function according to the needs of the O-Train line. Signal hardware and wiring were renovated and locations changed to provide efficient signal communication to trains.

Braking system. A German-designed Indusi automatic braking system was installed—the first time such a system had been used in North America. The Indusi system is computerized and consists of track magnets and speed monitoring devices on the trains. If the train is moving too fast, the braking system detects it and initiates the brakes automatically. The Indusi system works with the ABS system so that proper train separation is maintained. Safety is further enhanced through direct operator control.

Bombardier Talent Diesel Multiple Units (DMU). Three Bombardier Talent DMU trains were commissioned. The trains were built in Germany and shipped first to Montreal before arriving in Ottawa in January 2001.

The trains use Clear No. 1 diesel fuel, which contains less sulphur than other grades. The trains comply with exhaust emission requirements of Euro-II contaminant standards (the standards set by the European Union).

Each train weighs 72,000 kg, is 48 metres long, with seating capacity for 137 passengers and standing capacity for 150.

Each train is equipped with two four-stroke diesel engines, water-cooled in-line motors, and a horizontal-shaft design with exhaust gas turbocharger and charge cooler. Top speed is 120 km/hr.
[...]
http://data.tc.gc.ca/archive/eng/programs/environment-utsp-otrainlightrailproject-973.htm

And the signalling on the Confederation Line is Thales CBTC:
[...]
Rolling stock
As part of the winning consortium for the project, Alstom will provide thirty-four[7] Citadis Spirit LRVs. It is the company's first order for modern light rail vehicles in North America, competing directly with similar models such as the Siemens S70 (which was originally ordered for the original extension plan for the Trillium Line but was later cancelled). Derived from the earlier Citadis X-04 series used in Europe, they will be assembled in Alstom's plant in Hornell, New York with final assembly in Ottawa at a new depot and rail yard at Belfast Road and St-Laurent Boulevard, directly behind OC Transpo's headquarters and main bus depot (down the track from Tremblay station).[9][10]

Signalling on the line will be handled by ThalesSelTrac semi-automatic communication-based train control (CBTC) technology.[11] Thales will design, build, maintain the system, and support its installation and commissioning. [...]
[11]:
Thales’ semi-automatic Communications-Based Train Control (CBTC) technology is to be installed on Ottawa’s planned $2.1 billion light rail network.

Thales will design, build, maintain the systems, and support its installation and commissioning.

The Ottawa east-west link will be 12.5 km long and serve 13 stations.

The $2.1 billion ‘Confederation Line’ is scheduled to open in 2018 and will be designed and built by the Rideau Transit Group consortium.

Thales signalling systems have already been installed on the Toronto SRT and Vancouver’s SkyTrain elevated network.

Alstom was awarded a contract last month to supply 34 trams for the LRT system, having been identified as the preferred manufacturer in early proposals.
http://www.global-rail-news.com/2013/03/05/ottawa-lrt-signalling-award-for-thales/
 
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Catenary

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This is interesting information, Catenary, and there's no shortage of indirect references to this, with strikes, disability access issues, and a number of other technicalities, but I finally found the common denominator:

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/archives/rmoc/Regional_Council/11Mar98/Jtcomp.pdf

It makes for some odd situations, like drivers getting Federal Holidays off, but it also mandates regulation of the line by Transport Canada, who have set a number of precedents, one of them having to be signalling.

http://data.tc.gc.ca/archive/eng/programs/environment-utsp-otrainlightrailproject-973.htm

And the signalling on the Confederation Line is Thales CBTC:

http://www.global-rail-news.com/2013/03/05/ottawa-lrt-signalling-award-for-thales/


I wonder if the STO is also Federal. They operate more buses in Ottawa than OC does in Gatineau, but somehow I doubt they are federally regulated.

It should be noted that signalling on most of the Trillium line is now CTC, upgraded when the service was increased in 2013. I am unaware of any other mainline rail in Canada with a train protection system installed.
 

mdrejhon

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Ottawa's my hometown.

It's good to know that the new O-Train Confederation Line will be running CBTC.

That said, that particular LRT line is being built in a former BRT corridor (Transitway) as well new routings (underground through downtown) so that isn't mainline. But interesting nontheless!
 

steveintoronto

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I wonder if the STO is also Federal.
That an interesting question, as a lot of reader comments to a number of articles I read were upset (probably due to labour unrest) with OC Transpo being Federal, and wanted it broken into Ontario and Quebec operations, with the Capital Commission handling cross-river transit. I can see their point. Tried digging for definitive answer on STO (What's good for the gander, should be aussi pour l'oie) found nothing yet, but interesting discussion here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/archive/index.php/t-179763.html
 

mdrejhon

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I was reading articles and came across a gem I missed last month:

Thales Canada to carry out rail signalling solutions project in Ontario

Using Ontario's workforce, the project will focus on research and advanced engineering to develop Canada's communication-based train control (CBTC) solutions for mass transit, including subways, light rail and commuter rail systems.

This might also cover VIA HFR, the Ontario HSR, and the new Caisse proposal for Montreal.
 

steveintoronto

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I was reading articles and came across a gem I missed last month:

Thales Canada to carry out rail signalling solutions project in Ontario



This might also cover VIA HFR, the Ontario HSR, and the new Caisse proposal for Montreal.
Whoa! Excellent find. Have you noticed a number of pieces falling into place in just the last few weeks, or at least, the announcements? It could be the Infrastructure Fund investments already paying off, it could be more...

Will the next announcement be TC realizing it's time to allow more "European/International" standards for couplers and crash-worthiness? If VIA runs "dedicated track"....then they've already satisfied the 'separated running' in that regard.
 

steveintoronto

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The Globe and Mail, Published Thursday, Aug. 19, 2010
The action is a computer simulation, a kind of subway video game. But for the engineers at Toronto-based Thales Rail Signalling Solutions Inc., the virtual subways they operate are vital for ensuring passengers in major global centres get where they're going quickly and safely.

Once perfected in the Toronto office, Thales Rail installs its subway-control systems around the world for real-life use, allowing computers to automatically drive subway trains and even co-ordinate train scheduling, with little or no human help.

The systems, pioneered in Toronto, use radio-transmission technology in subway trains to control their speed and track how far apart the trains are. This allows them to safely run much more closely together - as frequently as 90 seconds apart - than those that use human drivers. Thales says its automated technology can stop a subway train within 10 centimetres of its target.

The virtual versions in Toronto allow Thales to test new features and work out kinks for its clients, transit agencies from Asia to America. With the press of a button, engineers can simulate a delay caused by a jammed subway door in rush hour. The computer quickly takes over, automatically rescheduling trains to run closer together to clear the growing crowds of waiting passengers.

"We can do all sorts of scenarios here," says Walter Kinio, the firm's director of research and development. "If something breaks on the train, if there's a physical problem with the train, the system has to react to that. We can do all of those tests here."

Part of France's aerospace-and-defence giant Thales SA since 2007, the Toronto-based rail-signalling division competes for work with European rail giants Siemens AG and Alstom SA, who have developed their own versions of the technology as cities around the world refurbish or expand their subways.

Recently appointed Thales Canada president Paul Kahn points to the company's recently announced deal to retrofit New York City's Flushing subway line as a major coup that establishes a foothold in the U.S. subway capital. But the company is also eyeing possible new contracts from San Francisco to Brussels. [...]
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...n-drives-subway-trains-abroad/article4324830/

But of course, some think that computer technology hasn't advanced in fifty years...
 

mdrejhon

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Oh good god no.

Thales is horrible. Their products are atrocious. The less I see of their name anywhere, the better.
From a CBTC reliability perspective, I'm interested in hearing about the various brands and products.

We can't have a buggy CBTC system run GO RER. Also, 10 years can do a lot -- look at what happened to Hyundai for example (unreliable cars are now supremely reliable) -- so I suspect half a generation can do a lot to brand maturity. Even Japan has signed contracts with Thales, so I'm wondering...

Background experience? Anecdotes? Etc?
 

mdrejhon

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November 22, 2017

"Parsons has begun providing technical advisory services for Metrolinx's Enhanced Train Control and Conventional Signaling (ETCCS) project, part of the Canadian agency's 10-year GO Transit regional/commuter rail expansion program consisting of C$13.5 billion in capital projects and $7 billion in state-of-good-repair works."
 

mdrejhon

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Bumping thread up!

ERTMS signalling is mentioned in the recent UrbanToronto interview:
Union Station and GO RER: Metrolinx's Phil Verster on the Future

Paging @jenglish and @steveintoronto

P.S. Fantastic job, Jonathan English, for re-igniting these important discussions! (And independently of knowing about my threads). Maybe you can use my earlier (little-read) research for a Part 2 followup on Metrolinx signalling plans and the new Oakville train control office. Just credit me for my time my digging through Metrolinx PDF files! I'd like to know what Metrolinx is going to eventually do about signalling, if it's going to be the $200M skimp or the $800M Euro/Japan precision system-wide, or a kind of phased deployment.
 
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steveintoronto

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I'd like to know what Metrolinx is going to eventually do about signalling, if it's going to be the $200M skimp or the $800M Euro/Japan precision system-wide, or a kind of phased deployment.
Good question. especially in light of how Verster is recasting the die of what RER is meant to be.
"Parsons has begun providing technical advisory services for Metrolinx's Enhanced Train Control and Conventional Signaling (ETCCS) project, part of the Canadian agency's 10-year GO Transit regional/commuter rail expansion program consisting of C$13.5 billion in capital projects and $7 billion in state-of-good-repair works."
I can find remarkably little about "ETCCS".

Lots on ETCS...so one wonders, that extra 'c'...for 'conventional' signals. Is this a half-assed compromise since the host railways and ML themselves don't wan't to bear the expense of doing this 'properly'?

Is the new vision for RER going to change that?
 

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