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Wow! Great find!

This was the last gasp of CN's passenger rail interest, which after neglect in the 1950s and 1960s after full dieselization, CN tried one more time to promote passenger rail with such things as Turbo, the less-successful Rapido (which was common on the corridor west of Toronto) and fare promotions.

CN also came up with the marketing name "VIA" for its passenger rail service, and by 1976, it has become a joint marketing name with CP, just before the feds took it over as a weaker version of Amtrak.

One can see some of the legacy of Turbo, such as the food service (Club Cars later became "VIA 1") and the banking technology, which was transferred to the LRC trains that came after. LRC cars are still used today, but the locomotives were abandoned 7 or 8 years ago. The LRC sets offered the 3h49 Toronto-Montreal service (which even in 2001, met the time for me), which fell by the wayside partly because of CN's declining track standards (also resulting in all those derailments lately), and because the LRC locos were falling apart.
 
ShonTron said:
CN also came up with the marketing name "VIA" for its passenger rail service, and by 1976, it has become a joint marketing name with CP, just before the feds took it over as a weaker version of Amtrak.
Click to expand...

Was Via superior as a subsidy of crown corporation CN than as it's own crown corporation?
 
The United Aircraft Turbo Train-CN version video...

HD: Good find and good memories of the United Aircraft Turbo Train that CN ran in the Toronto-Montreal corridor.
There also was a USDOT experimental version that ran between NYC and Boston under Penn Central beginning in 1969-70 and then Amtrak beginning in May 1971. Unfortunately they were built with a short lifespan of 10-15 years and also I can not get that disasterous crash that one former CN trainset was involved in on a test run after being sold to Amtrak. The CN (later VIA) version lasted longer but Amtrak's were retired by the end of the 70s and later stored and then scrapped when restoring them to service was deemed uneconimical. It was a interesting combination of aircraft technology adapted to rail transport but it proved to be
not successful in the long run. LI MIKE
 
Long Island Mike said:
HD: Good find and good memories of the United Aircraft Turbo Train that CN ran in the Toronto-Montreal corridor.
There also was a USDOT experimental version that ran between NYC and Boston under Penn Central beginning in 1969-70 and then Amtrak beginning in May 1971. Unfortunately they were built with a short lifespan of 10-15 years and also I can not get that disasterous crash that one former CN trainset was involved in on a test run after being sold to Amtrak. The CN (later VIA) version lasted longer but Amtrak's were retired by the end of the 70s and later stored and then scrapped when restoring them to service was deemed uneconimical. It was a interesting combination of aircraft technology adapted to rail transport but it proved to be
not successful in the long run. LI MIKE
Click to expand...

Hey LI Mike,

Didn't Amtrak also run a French gas turbine train on the New York-Boston run back then? And wasn't there some plan to use LRCs as well? Amtrak did the right thing in the 1990s by just electrifying the NEC past New Haven to Boston - and also by buying the NEC outright and leaving most of the freight service to travel on the roughly parallel CSX tracks.

Shon,

Yeah, CN gave it one more go during the 1960s didn't they? In many ways, I hesitate to say that we've actually regressed; the fastest trips now take 40 minutes longer than the Turbo did, and the Turbo ran two daily express services versus only one today. Then there's the distinct branding of the Turbo trains from their Rapido counterparts, which we lack with our all-LRC stock nowadays. The on-board experience seems to be more sophisticated and pleasurable, too, with its bar cars and panorama lounges. Even the stations have regressed. As part of their efforts to bring passenger rail into the late 20th century, CN went on a spree of building modernist railway stations (Ottawa being the flagship), and with the exception of Ottawa, almost all of them have been demolished or turned into some sort of KFC-looking LoPo shack.

What I find quite interesting and perhaps sad is that other than the Shinkansen, the Turbo probably represented the most advanced passenger train on the rails in 1968. Another interesting thing - and perhaps telling of the state of passenger rail and, especially high speed passenger rail in this country - is that this sleek state-of-the-art train is shown running along jointed, poorly-maintained tracks. It's telling that the narrator describes that, while capable of reaching 170 mph in test runs, the Turbo will be confined to 95 mph service. Even more telling is when the meals are served and the trays can't seem to stop shaking, likely due to the decrepit condition of the tracks. It's somewhat ominous when the narrator finally closes off by saying that one day, luxury travel between Toronto and Montreal may take place on a cushion of air - too bad that cushion of air is what's keeping the Q-400 aloft as you fly from Toronto to Montreal on Porter!
 
Hipster Duck said:
Even the stations have regressed. As part of their efforts to bring passenger rail into the late 20th century, CN went on a spree of building modernist railway stations (Ottawa being the flagship), and with the exception of Ottawa, almost all of them have been demolished or turned into some sort of KFC-looking LoPo shack.
Click to expand...

At least Oshawa might be put out of its misery, joining Oakville.

I agree about the KFC roofs. Kingston, probably one of the best examples of a medium-sized station (complete with tunnel and mini-station on the south track) is a farce with the VIA roof on top, as is Ste-Foy, both decent sizes and worthy of comment. Dorval's roof certainly doesn't fit. Thoughmost of the small modernist stations were nothing to write home about. Cornwall's CN station (which has been spared the VIA roof) might have been OK, but it is basic and plain (and unpleasant inside). I'm not a fan of the CN modern Windsor/Walkerville station either.

Ottawa's Parkin is a masterpiece - and thankfully heritage protected.

Another interesting thing - and perhaps telling of the state of passenger rail and, especially high speed passenger rail in this country - is that this sleek state-of-the-art train is shown running along jointed, poorly-maintained tracks. It's telling that the narrator describes that, while capable of reaching 170 mph in test runs, the Turbo will be confined to 95 mph service. Even more telling is when the meals are served and the trays can't seem to stop shaking, likely due to the decrepit condition of the tracks.
Click to expand...

Parts of the tracks were brought up to 100 mph, I guess with the welded rail, but I think part of the problem is that VIA trains are forced to share the tracks with privatized CN, which runs 100-car long freight trains at its pleasure, making it difficult to run good passenger rail. Take off the freights, and I could imagine 125 mph being quite possible (about the feasible max crusing speed for conventional diesel trains), which would be a good step in the right direction for now.
 
Amtrak Turbo and LRC trains...

HD: Amtrak used some RTG01 French turbine trains in the midwest on short-haul routes out of Chicago beginning in 1973.
These trains ran until the late 80s/early 90s period to St.Louis and Milwaukee basically.

The Rohr turbo trains used in NYS service from the late 70s to the 90s were based on this French design.

Amtrak had basically two sets of LRC equipment - two LRC locomotives and 10 cars that were originally used in the early 80s between NYC and Boston. They also ran in service east of New Haven on short haul trains there. The locomotives did not operate
W on New Haven in electrified territory. This train was returned to VIA by the end of the 80s. Later after they were returned to VIA which basically used the 10 cars on the International between Chicago and Toronto via Port Huron/Sarnia as part of VIA's pool contribution to this train. These cars were not compatible with VIA's LRC cars because of different HEP voltage and you could spot these cars easily because the windows were two-piece instead of one piece like VIA's LRC cars.

LI MIKE
 
What a fantastic find! Thanks for posting this. That little doc is awesome not only because of the showcase of the Turbo, but because of the mod sensibility it showcased of the late 60s.
 
Ah, the turbo. I used to ride it a lot between Montreal and Windsor as a child. It seemed so space age. For a time they had a glass enclosed driver cabin and you could go right up to the locomotive and watch the driver. That ended when I guess when they put a bar car between the locomotive and the passenger cars and kids were barred from passing through the bar car!
 
Chris: You mean the CN version? Amtrak's version was used on the Washington,DC-Parkersburg,WV route for a time and made a tour around the US-it was owned by the US DOT. LI MIKE
 
Long Island Mike said:
Chris: You mean the CN version? Amtrak's version was used on the Washington,DC-Parkersburg,WV route for a time and made a tour around the US-it was owned by the US DOT. LI MIKE
Click to expand...
No, sorry I read the previous post incorrectly - I thought the poster meant he took the Turbo to Windsor, when in Canada it only ever operated on the Montreal - Toronto route.
 
Great find!

A few tiny nitpicks:
The schedule back in the early 2000s was 3h59m, not 49m. I obviously get your point though. It was a real marketing benefit to have the 3 at the start there. Once it's four hours, you're pretty much in the same category as driving. I'm not entirely sure why the speeds have been reduced. The P42s are just as capable of reaching the 100mph top speed as the LRC locomotives and there have been no speed limit reductions as far as I know. The entire Kingston Sub is fairly high quality continuously welded rail, so that shouldn't be an issue. They really need more of the express trains, though. I worked in Montreal for a while and my boss told me that he often likes to take the Metropolis but if it doesn't fit into his schedule he flies because 5+ hours is just too long.

I have a different view of the stations. While some of the renovations might be a bit dubious, a lot of them are great. The historic Kitchener station used to be a dismal yellow acoustic-tiled nightmare. Now it's been magnificently restored with a wonderful high ceiling and all the moulding intact. Ottawa also received a much-needed sensitive reno.
VIA has also done a very creditable job with onboard service. I've ridden trains all over the world and I can say without exaggeration that the VIA trains are probably the most pleasant and comfortable that I've experienced. They also have features like free wi-fi that the Europeans are only slowly figuring out. The trains are slow and infrequent, but at least they're pretty pleasant while you're on board.

Ultimately what we need is real high speed rail. If Morocco, Turkey and Argentina can do it at this point, we sure can. Yes, it will cost double-digit billions, but unlike those countries almost all of that money will be spent domestically since we're home to the world's largest rail equipment manufacturer and one of the biggest engineering firms.
 
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