asher__jo
Active Member
Interesting, although I see a subway up Dufferin or Bathurst much more likely in the long-term.
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Bureaucromancer
Active Member
Has happened before. When they were designing Toronto's first rapid transit line, Yonge Street (Line 1), in the 1940's, they thought that the next rapid line would be the Queen streetcar-subway. Instead, their attention switched to Bloor Street and Danforth Avenue, in the 1950's. The ridership transfers at Bloor Station was getting higher, so they changed plans, to a Bloor-Danforth (Line 2), and even interline with three different lines. Wonder what "new" lines there would have been if they kept the three lines back then? Changes con
From link.
You also forget the intermediate flying U plan that would have been a full subway and created an awkward combination of the DRL/Queen and Bloor lines. Endless tinkering and really only building anything by virtue of occasional dumb luck is a long way from new here.
I have to imagine that if this had been built the gap on Bloor would have been filled by now, and that we would most likely have ended up splitting the lines into something resembling the historical BD plus DRL at that time.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Has happened before. When they were designing Toronto's first rapid transit line, Yonge Street (Line 1), in the 1940's, they thought that the next rapid line would be the Queen streetcar-subway. Instead, their attention switched to Bloor Street and Danforth Avenue, in the 1950's. The ridership transfers at Bloor Station was getting higher, so they changed plans, to a Bloor-Danforth (Line 2), and even interline with three different lines. Wonder what "new" lines there would have been if they kept the three lines back then? Changes con
From link.
You also forget the intermediate flying U plan that would have been a full subway and created an awkward combination of the DRL/Queen and Bloor lines. Endless tinkering and really only building anything by virtue of occasional dumb luck is a long way from new here.
I have to imagine that if this had been built the gap on Bloor would have been filled by now, and that we would most likely have ended up splitting the lines into something resembling the historical BD plus DRL at that time.
So, part of me wonders if there is any way to ... interline the Bloor and OL lines.
Think of it this way, every 2nd route goes through.
Route 1 Kennedy - Islington
Route 2 Ontario SC - Exhibition
Route 3 Kennedy - Exhibition
Route 4 Ontario SC - Islington
Would there be enough room to double the current Line 2 frequency?
99Messier
New Member
Frequency and this plan are mutually exclusive. Based on the 4 routes, every station would still be service by the number of trains - except instead of all going to the same place, they alternate with final desitinations (i.e. Kennedy or SC, Islington or Ex).
Lot of difficulty connecting tracks though. Pape and Dundas West would be war zones of construction.
FYI - this was interesting back in the day. https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/trzs-drl-fantasy-13km-3-billion-former-toronto.670156/
99Messier
New Member
This would have been required instead of the YUS. 4.5km of extra subway to keep the interline going.Has happened before. When they were designing Toronto's first rapid transit line, Yonge Street (Line 1), in the 1940's, they thought that the next rapid line would be the Queen streetcar-subway. Instead, their attention switched to Bloor Street and Danforth Avenue, in the 1950's. The ridership transfers at Bloor Station was getting higher, so they changed plans, to a Bloor-Danforth (Line 2), and even interline with three different lines. Wonder what "new" lines there would have been if they kept the three lines back then? Changes con
From link.
Yonge-Bloor would not quite be the problem it is now though. I don't think anyone ever thought of this though - although possibly by Morse Code or Ham Radio some subway fans were discussing it.
toraerach
Active Member
I'm not convinced that the line would have to go any farther than Roncesvalles/Queen in the near future with a stop at Jameson. That should be enough to serve Parkdale and Roncesvalles, thereby providing relief to the streetcar network. Further, it would provide an opportunity to re-orient transit in southern Etobicoke away from N/S bus routes, which, combined with GO service to Dundas West, should provide enough relief to Line 2 for the near future. If, as has been suggested upthread, we need a second relief line in a few decades, the Dundas corridor would seem like the most obvious route; I would therefore leave a Dundas West connection for that line.
The rest of this post probably belongs in the fantasy thread. In the future, I would like to see the OL extended farther west into Etobicoke. This would only work if we encouraged southern Etobicoke to further densify to the point that LW GO (including a Park Lawn stop) in no longer sufficient. My proposal would be to elevate the line over the Queensway to Humber Loop. Following this, it would curve down into the Humber Bay Shores community before continuing west, either under the Queensway or elevated over the Gardiner to Kipling. From Kipling, there would be a few options of where to go:
(1) Continue west to Sherway/Dixie GO
(2) Turn north up the former CP ROW up to Line 2 (with a Line 2 extension to Sherway/Dixie GO)
(3) Branch out in order to do both
(4) Branch both north and south along the CP ROW to Line 2 and Lake Shore/Humber College, respectively (perhaps with a third shuttle service running between Line 2 and Lake Shore)
Again, this would all hinge on major urbanization/densification of southern Etobicoke, not only of the Queensway corridor/HBS/Sherway areas, but also in the surrounding yellow belt neighbourhoods. Given its fairly regular street grid and handful of existing high streets, this should be much easier to accomplish than in most other suburban areas.
micheal_can
Senior Member
I have seen that before. That's kinda what I mean. I feel it would really be the only way to truly relieve Yonge-Bloor Station.
You mean a Bay-Bathurst-Avenue line?
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
This is a great post. I don't agree with the residents' reasoning, but very well written.
This is probably the best idea...and why it should be going along Queen street west and not all the way down at the Ex...
SweetWater
New Member
Why would Metrolinx be drilling OL core samples at Pape and Withrow, when core samples were drilled 10 metres south for the DRL? I don't believe the core samples would be different. I don't believe the soil has changed. Looks like a low cost make work project by Metrolinx to show the public it is doing something.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
I believe core samples are only considered valid for 18 months typically. If the initial core samples are older than that, they may have to be redone.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Yes, because the ground will change in 2 years....
nfitz
Superstar
I was reading through the public comments in the recently released Environmental Conditions Report. I'm amused to see that they are unabridged.
My favourite is on page 163 of the PDF:
My favourite is on page 163 of the PDF:
Coolstar
Senior Member
Mind providing the link to the report? I too would like to read the public comments.
sche
Active Member
It's quite well hidden on ML's website! Took a little bit of digging to find it. Also the rest of the Environmental Conditions report (if anyone's interested) is here https://www.metrolinxengage.com/en/content/ontario-line-environmental-conditions-report
officedweller
Senior Member
... and remember it's not Metrolinx that will be relying on the core samples, it's the proponents,
so for a relatively small cost, it's a cover your butt exercise as well in case the proponent does encounter a problem,
since tunnelling risk is typically transferred to the proponent.
so for a relatively small cost, it's a cover your butt exercise as well in case the proponent does encounter a problem,
since tunnelling risk is typically transferred to the proponent.