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kEiThZ

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I think this is acknowledging that we are allowing people to immigrate here by taking some perfunctory education, working as much as is allowed (perhaps some under the table) and try to get their PR. Frankly, we should eliminate the pointless 'education', as it is frankly a waste. Quite a cottage industry for local colleges like Humber, Centennial, Sheridan, etc.

There's a few dimensions to this. But the biggest one is that our education sector very much needs these students to sustain itself. Without them, our education system would be a lot smaller. Would we accept that, especially the closures of colleges and universities in smaller cities?

The other side of it, is our failure on integrating foreign education and experience. I don't feel like much has changed on that front, since I watched my parents struggle in the early 90s. And they were English speaking university grads from India with a decade of experience in their fields. The reality is that a Canadian educated immigrant is literally the best possible immigrant we can get. No issues with language skills or foreign education. They are usually at the start of their working lives. And we haven't had to subsidize any of their upbringing or education. Substantial net gain.

The solution is subsidized housing, for the poor and for those studying, rather than dragging down wages because Trudeau's friends want him to.

The reality is quite a few of them are already working. A lot of it under the table. Especially for other immigrants. I suspect the government is trying to legitimize some of this.

As for addressing the housing issues, well we know how that's going.....
 

kEiThZ

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The dangerous part is not when flying as the air systems on planes are very good, it's in airports and getting on and off- when the plane's systems are not on.

Yep. People don't get that the air exchange rates on airplanes is substantially high. If it wasn't, I guarantee you the rancid smells on long haul at 30k feet would have a lot of people refusing to fly again!
 

gabe

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Can Ontario ship all the anti-science, anti-vax, racist right wing nutjobs to Alberta? That province is paradise for them. Enjoy your "freedom" !

“They have been the most discriminated against group that I’ve ever witnessed in my lifetime, that’s a pretty extreme level of discrimination that we have seen.”

Danielle Smith says unvaccinated people have suffered greater discrimination than those based on race, gender, sexuality and other.


 

Admiral Beez

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The reality is that a Canadian educated immigrant is literally the best possible immigrant we can get. No issues with language skills or foreign education. They are usually at the start of their working lives.
I think my family trumps that. My Dad worked in sales at J.Water Thompson in the UK in the 1970s. He walked down to HR and asked to transfer to their Toronto office. Some minor HR and government paperwork later, my Dad soon arrived in Toronto, bought a house and shipped us from London to the GTA. In a flash, five new Canadians, fluent in English, headed by immediately employed middle-income parents, not needing a dime of gov't money. No education equivalency or investment needed.

A foreign educated, English/French speaking immigrant is ideal, if their education and credentials are both recognizable and applicable.
 

kEiThZ

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I think my family trumps that. My Dad worked in sales at J.Water Thompson in the UK in the 1970s. He walked down to HR and asked to transfer to their Toronto office. Some minor HR and government paperwork later, my Dad soon arrived in Toronto, bought a house and shipped us from London to the GTA. In a flash, five new Canadians, fluent in English, headed by immediately employed middle-income parents, not needing a dime of gov't money. No education equivalency or investment needed.

Yeah. But how many immigrants are we getting from the UK these days? Maybe it'll change with the disaster over there. But right now this would be atypical.

The big issue isn't even language. Most immigrants to Canada speak English or French to at least a passable level. It's getting the qualifications recognized that is challenging.
 

Northern Light

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Today, the Government of Canada announced its new plan to drive up housing costs, while suppressing wage growth; its boosting its record immigration targets, again!


The plan now calls for:

465,000 immigrants next year.
485,000 in 2024
500,000 in 2025

Stats. Can estimates that there are 39.1M of us right now.

So this would grow the population to ~40.6M + by the end of 2025.

That would bring us to ~1.25% annualized growth from immigration by 2025.

****

Lets again repeat, I'm perfectly fine w/immigration providing that we're seeing positive real income growth at the median level; and providing we're building enough housing for all income strata and tenure.

But as we are doing neither, this seems anything but wise.
 

Richard White

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Today, the Government of Canada announced its new plan to drive up housing costs, while suppressing wage growth; its boosting its record immigration targets, again!


The plan now calls for:

465,000 immigrants next year.
485,000 in 2024
500,000 in 2025

Stats. Can estimates that there are 39.1M of us right now.

So this would grow the population to ~40.6M + by the end of 2025.

That would bring us to ~1.25% annualized growth from immigration by 2025.

****

Lets again repeat, I'm perfectly fine w/immigration providing that we're seeing positive real income growth at the median level; and providing we're building enough housing for all income strata and tenure.

But as we are doing neither, this seems anything but wise.

I would be ok with this *IF* they sent the immigrants to places that were definitively underpopulated.

Make it a condition of their PR or visa to go live in an underpopulated city for X amount of years. Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal are far too overpopulated and will need significant investment to handle the amount of immigrants idiot boy wants to bring in.
 

DSC

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I would be ok with this *IF* they sent the immigrants to places that were definitively underpopulated.

Make it a condition of their PR or visa to go live in an underpopulated city for X amount of years. Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal are far too overpopulated and will need significant investment to handle the amount of immigrants idiot boy wants to bring in.
You often speak of your Hungarian roots, do you not wonder why your ancestors (apparently) moved to Toronto and not Upper Armpit Nova Scotia? Probably something to do with moving to an area where there were others who spoke their language, where they could buy ethnic food and where there were jobs. You seem keen to send immigrants to under-populated places, I suspect they have no more empty housing than we do and that they are underpopulated for many good reasons - including climate, employment etc etc.
 

Northern Light

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You often speak of your Hungarian roots, do you not wonder why your ancestors (apparently) moved to Toronto and not Upper Armpit Nova Scotia? Probably something to do with moving to an area where there were others who spoke their language, where they could buy ethnic food and where there were jobs. You seem keen to send immigrants to under-populated places, I suspect they have no more empty housing than we do and that they are underpopulated for many good reasons - including climate, employment etc etc.

I think, to be fair, there are absolutely opportunities to house people in some less populated cities. In point of fact, we're already doing it, simply not at the level Richard is advocating, a level I don't think we would want to, nor could achieve.

But I think we could do more.

As much as we need doctors in Toronto, rural areas are far more under-serviced. If a doctor is capable of practicing in English (or French if applicable) there are many good opportunities in less populated centres. But we need to make that a positive choice, with the right supports.

Most immigrants we take in are in fact fluent in either English or French, and so being near to native speakers of their mother tongue is less an issue than it once was; particularly when one can be social via facetime/webchat and phone at relatively low cost.

For those are not fluent, typically they are either in the family reunification stream, and will be going where their family is located; or they are refugees; and in that case, their skill level and aptitudes will matter, but the key will be support in ESL, or French as a second language; and other help settling in to Canadian life. The Syrian program, with community sponsorships was quite successful in many respects, not problem free, but a good model overall of how that can be done.

Beyond that, we can offer economic incentives for those willing to locate out of the way, where it makes sense to do so. For instance, aside from doctors, we actually do need farmers in many rural areas; but the barriers to entry economically of buying a high-value farm may be an issue. There are ways to soften that blow.

To come full circle, a large number of immigrants can, will and should settle in large urban centres; but we ought not be actively facilitating that without having proper plans for adequate levels of housing, education/credential recognition, Canadian experience provision, other supporting infrastructure (ie. transit) in place.

We also should be proactively trying to place people (by choice) in communities better able to support growth, for the benefit both of the immigrant and the community in question.
 

Admiral Beez

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You often speak of your Hungarian roots, do you not wonder why your ancestors (apparently) moved to Toronto and not Upper Armpit Nova Scotia? Probably something to do with moving to an area where there were others who spoke their language, where they could buy ethnic food and where there were jobs. You seem keen to send immigrants to under-populated places, I suspect they have no more empty housing than we do and that they are underpopulated for many good reasons - including climate, employment etc etc.
You want to come to Canada. You go to where Canada needs you. When my Ukrainian wife’s ancestors came to Canada in the 1920s they didn’t get a choice, the ship landed at Halifax and the train took them straight to Manitoba. But…. the difference was in exchange for coming the newcomers got free land. If you want newcomers to move to underpopulated areas of Canada and stay there, you need to give them an incentive.
 

lenaitch

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The desire for many first generation immigrants to coalesce in communities is stronger in some cultures than others. I don't doubt that current immigrants have a stronger fluency in English (or French) than in past decades which gave us the array of Little Italy, Chinatown, etc. Much of previous generations of immigrants was more of the blue collar, 'strong back' type that was ideal for employment in forestry, mines and some agricultural areas. Northern Ontario has a strong demographic of Finnish, Italian and Ukrainian heritage, among others.

NL is quite right that the shortages of medical professionals, particularly doctors, is acute in rural Canada. Many rural communities have 'recruitment committees' to try and attract doctors with incentives like free or discounted office space, but their financial capacity is often limited. I think subsidizing agricultural land ownership would be problematic, if for no other reason than the sheer cost.

In rural and under serviced areas, employment is the key, not the climate. I suspect that many first generation immigrants would be more willing to head to Timmins, Yellowknife or Gander than most Canadians.
 

Bayer

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We cannot ask immigrants to fulfill any specific need or send them wherever we want. Once you are a permanent resident, you are free, period.
 

Admiral Beez

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The desire for many first generation immigrants to coalesce in communities is stronger in some cultures than others. I don't doubt that current immigrants have a stronger fluency in English (or French) than in past decades which gave us the array of Little Italy, Chinatown, etc. Much of previous generations of immigrants was more of the blue collar, 'strong back' type that was ideal for employment in forestry, mines and some agricultural areas. Northern Ontario has a strong demographic of Finnish, Italian and Ukrainian heritage, among others.

NL is quite right that the shortages of medical professionals, particularly doctors, is acute in rural Canada. Many rural communities have 'recruitment committees' to try and attract doctors with incentives like free or discounted office space, but their financial capacity is often limited. I think subsidizing agricultural land ownership would be problematic, if for no other reason than the sheer cost.

In rural and under serviced areas, employment is the key, not the climate. I suspect that many first generation immigrants would be more willing to head to Timmins, Yellowknife or Gander than most Canadians.
If I was to move to Japan, for example, the very last people I would want to live near or associate with is other English speaking white folks.
 

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