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nfitz

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My point was 'ignoring the Constitution' was overly broad. The Constitution is two statutes; the Constitution Act 1867 (British North America Act) and the Constitution Act 1981. The Charter is only one part - a very important part - of eight in that statute. I'm not trying to limit the impact, which is significant, but Sec 33 ('notwithstanding clause') can only suspend the Charter rights enumerated in the section. There are many it can not.
One question is how is this not cruel and unusual punishment? Which the courts were protecting before the Charter of Rights.

And heck, Section 12 of the Charter of Rights confirms the ban on cruel and unusual punishment. Which Bill 28 did not suspend.

I'm surprised the union hasn't already filed for an injunction - perhaps they are waiting until all the rural MPs have left down for their ... (checks calendar) .... November break.

The government has screwed up in two ways here.

a) It's blatantly clear that the law won't stand - so it's no threat to the union. And an attempt to enforce it will likely lead to binding arbitration - so the union wins

b) even if the law stands, the penalties are so massive, there's no way the union can ever accept a settlement that doesn't remove the penalties - which makes it less likely the union will concede quickly

It's a shame we don't have a government that doesn't do what's necessary to keep kids in school
 
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wopchop

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This means nothing until those trade unions, especially Liuna which has a lot of political capital, actually show their support.

I have heard a lot of anger on the ground from various union members (Ironworker, carpenters, labourers).
 

Richard White

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This could be Ford's Waterloo.

After so many years of forced contracts, labour unions are out for blood. Doing it to one union doesn't concern many people but using the NWC to force wage suppression on everyone will piss people off.

As they keep doing this, more and more people become affected and it is starting to reach a critical mass.

Hit the pocketbooks of a few thousand workers and nobody makes a big stink. Hit the pocketbooks of tens or hundreds of thousands and you have a problem.

At some point the PCs will realise (hopefully) they have alienated a large chunk of the population and cut back on forced wage suppression to save themselves.
 

zang

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This means nothing until those trade unions, especially Liuna which has a lot of political capital, actually show their support.

I have heard a lot of anger on the ground from various union members (Ironworker, carpenters, labourers).
Yesterday, a friend (an OPSEU Education Executive) cryptically told us in a chat that "LIUNA is going out."
 

Admiral Beez

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This means nothing until those trade unions, especially Liuna which has a lot of political capital, actually show their support.
This may be the straw that gets to that point.

Every other union in Ontario needs to look at this. If you’re a construction union looking to strike, we could easy see Doug Ford acquiesce to pressure from his developer buddies to force a contract backed by the NWC in the name of “we need housing for Ontario families“.

I hope every union member in Ontario, and even across the country realizes that this is their future if this is not stopped.
 

wopchop

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This may be the straw that gets to that point.

Every other union in Ontario needs to look at this. If you’re a construction union looking to strike, we could easy see Doug Ford acquiesce to pressure from his developer buddies to force a contract backed by the NWC in the name of “we need housing for Ontario families“.

I hope every union member in Ontario, and even across the country realizes that this is their future if this is not stopped.
Completely agree, and this is what many members have been talking about.
 

Jonny5

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I think the strike is generally less popular than the teacher's unions think, though there is still significant support for strikers, there's a lot of anger against the schools now for "choosing" to shut down too. The Ford strategy is banking on the longer this goes on the more he looks like he's the reasonable one, and no one actually talking about the specifics. It will quickly get to "I don't care who is right, just go back to work!"

My bellweathers are the TV morning shows which are generally targeted at moms of different demographics depending on the station, and all of them did make this a top story, but they quickly moved on to the regular infotainment junk news and spent much more time on that.

Global TV morning show spent five minutes of their 30 minutes show cycle (repeated four times each morning) on the strike, but they immediately went back to the junkm spending three minutes on today being National Sandwich Day. However, they were the only ones who mentioned specifics about the proposal no one else talked about what each side wants at all.
Breakfast Television managed 90 seconds before a five minute (!) segment on Kyle Irving where Sid had his daily "I think I'm still on sports radio" rant.
CTV Morning--which is a national show not Ontario focused (in theory)--managed only to mention it in passing, though that's all they do with news on that show.


So for today, it's still in their "not that big a deal category" but maybe they are thinking about something happening on the weekend to end it.
 
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Northern Light

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I think the strike is generally less popular than the teacher's unions think, though there is still significant support for strikers, there's a lot of anger against the schools now for "choosing" to shut down too. The Ford strategy is banking on the longer this goes on the more he looks like he's the reasonable one, and no one actually talking about the specifics. It will quickly get to "I don't care who is right, just go back to work!"

My bellweathers are the TV morning shows which are generally targeted at moms of different demographics depending on the station, and all of them did make this a top story, but they quickly moved on to the regular infotainment junk news and spent much more time on that.

Global TV morning show spent five minutes of their 30 minutes show cycle (repeated four times each morning) on the strike, but they immediately went back to the junkm spending three minutes on today being National Sandwich Day. However, they were the only ones who mentioned specifics about the proposal no one else talked about what each side wants at all.
Breakfast Television managed 90 seconds before a five minute (!) segment on Kyle Irving where Sid had his daily "I think I'm still on sports radio" rant.
CTV Morning--which is a national show not Ontario focused (in theory)--managed only to mention it in passing, though that's all they do with news on that show.


So for today, it's still in their "not that big a deal category" but maybe they are thinking about something happening on the weekend to end it.

For clarity, this is about support staff, not teachers, different group of employees and different union.
 

Richard White

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I think the strike is generally less popular than the teacher's unions think, though there is still significant support for strikers, there's a lot of anger against the schools now for "choosing" to shut down too. The Ford strategy is banking on the longer this goes on the more he looks like he's the reasonable one, and no one actually talking about the specifics. It will quickly get to "I don't care who is right, just go back to work!"

My bellweathers are the TV morning shows which are generally targeted at moms of different demographics depending on the station, and all of them did make this a top story, but they quickly moved on to the regular infotainment junk news and spent much more time on that.

Global TV morning show spent five minutes of their 30 minutes show cycle (repeated four times each morning) on the strike, but they immediately went back to the junkm spending three minutes on today being National Sandwich Day. However, they were the only ones who mentioned specifics about the proposal no one else talked about what each side wants at all.
Breakfast Television managed 90 seconds before a five minute (!) segment on Kyle Irving where Sid had his daily "I think I'm still on sports radio" rant.
CTV Morning--which is a national show not Ontario focused (in theory)--managed only to mention it in passing, though that's all they do with news on that show.


So for today, it's still in their "not that big a deal category" but maybe they are thinking about something happening on the weekend to end it.

The schools didn't choose to shut down because the strike, they had no choice.

Unfortunately, if support staff walk out you can't safely operate the schools.

Honestly, it is not the unions fault for walking out. If someone forced a contract on you that keeps you at or marginally above the poverty line would you stay?

If it was me and my employer forced me to work at near poverty levels I'd tell them where to go and what to do with themselves.

Teachers and other workers across Ontario deserve better.

I have opinions but I can't say them here without getting banned or worse..
 

Admiral Beez

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I think the strike is generally less popular than the teacher's unions think,
If your ignorance of whom is striking, i.e. it's not teachers, is indicative of general opinion then I think the issue is one of a misinformed public rather than unreasonable demands by those who are striking.
My bellweathers are the TV morning shows which are generally targeted at moms of different demographics depending on the station, and all of them did make this a top story
How did you manage to watch the TV morning shows and still remain clueless as to who is striking?

Don't you work in the financial sector where accuracy and understanding before acting is paramount?
Where I work, (a financial institution downtown in the financial district)
Please have the basic facts straight before touching my or anyone's money. Sheesh.
 
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wopchop

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I don't see how this ends quickly.

CUPE can not let this stand. They had a legislated contract, with no legal recourse. In the usual situation with essential workers, there is at least arbitration which can be favourable. But this situation, it is completely one-sided. It is just untenable, and could easily happen again if accepted. If that were to occur, the union itself becomes useless, as they have lost all control over all conditions of work.

The government has broken the unwritten contract between management and labour. That contract is the one that ended unpredictable strikes, and even violence. They need to be careful about unintended consequences.

The government right now is negotiating with all the teachers unions. I would not be surprised if this bill was intended as a signal to those unions. This bill will likely derail that process, as it will undermine all faith in negotiations. This increases the likelihood of major teacher strikes in the coming months.
 
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