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Tuscani01

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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...n-hopes-of-increasing-safety/article21743109/

What does this mean in a practical implementation sense? Most Toronto arterials are 2-lanes-per direction. Will these narrower lanes actually offer room for bike lanes on streets such as Bloor?

That is the goal. Jennifer Keesmat has been active on Twitter regarding the ideas which include widening sidewalks, 'parkifying' streets, and adding bike lanes. Each street is to be treated differently, so there isn't a one size fit all solution on what to do with the extra space.
 

ShonTron

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We have seen this already on Bay Street between College and Dundas, where the wide curb lane was segmented into a narrower "Clearway" lane (buses, taxis etc 7AM-7PM) and new bike-only lanes.
 

gweed123

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Personally, I'd rather see the 4 lane roads that don't carry streetcars converted into 3 lane roads with a centre turning lane, 2 thru lanes, and bike lanes and/or wider sidewalks. Most 4 lane roads in Toronto are effectively 2 lane roads anyway, due to a combination of left hand turning cars and cars parked in the right lane. 4 lane roads are effectively 2 lane slaloms.
 

Tuscani01

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Personally, I'd rather see the 4 lane roads that don't carry streetcars converted into 3 lane roads with a centre turning lane, 2 thru lanes, and bike lanes and/or wider sidewalks. Most 4 lane roads in Toronto are effectively 2 lane roads anyway, due to a combination of left hand turning cars and cars parked in the right lane. 4 lane roads are effectively 2 lane slaloms.

Only issue with that would be right turns, especially at intersections with large pedestrian volumes. It's my only gripe about the current arrangement on Sherbourne. There are times when no cars can get through an intersection because they are stuck behind a right turning vehicle which cannot turn because of a constant stream of pedestrians, and the left turn lane is occupied by a left turning vehicle. Mind you, banning right turns at these intersections makes it much safer for pedestrians and cyclists anyway.
 

reaperexpress

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Personally, I'd rather see the 4 lane roads that don't carry streetcars converted into 3 lane roads with a centre turning lane, 2 thru lanes, and bike lanes and/or wider sidewalks. Most 4 lane roads in Toronto are effectively 2 lane roads anyway, due to a combination of left hand turning cars and cars parked in the right lane. 4 lane roads are effectively 2 lane slaloms.

Exactly! This works nicely on the streets where it was already done: Dundas east of Broaview; Harbord, Shuter, etc. Everyone benefits from the calmer motor traffic, including drivers.

And I would extend it to streetcar routes as well, to be undertaken whenever there is track reconstruction. Streetcars are the most harmed by the current "4 lane" layout, getting stuck behind a single left-turning car while everyone else passes by. The left turn lane would also allow some traffic to potentially move while a streetcar is loading/unloading.

Only issue with that would be right turns, especially at intersections with large pedestrian volumes. It's my only gripe about the current arrangement on Sherbourne. There are times when no cars can get through an intersection because they are stuck behind a right turning vehicle which cannot turn because of a constant stream of pedestrians, and the left turn lane is occupied by a left turning vehicle. Mind you, banning right turns at these intersections makes it much safer for pedestrians and cyclists anyway.

This problem can occur in all road layouts with fewer than three approach lanes, including the current layout on the streets in question. At least with this design only motor traffic is held up, as opposed to all traffic currently.
 
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Electrify

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For critics of this, keep in mind most lanes are designed extra wide for the posted speed limit to improve safety. However what ends up happening is that drivers will go as fast as they can as long as they feel safe, so a 60km/h zone regularly sees traffic moving at 80km/h or more. This project will mean traffic is more likely to drive the speed limit and in uniform, creating a safer experience for drivers while also providing an opportunity to better adjust traffic lights.
 

Electrify

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Personally, I'd rather see the 4 lane roads that don't carry streetcars converted into 3 lane roads with a centre turning lane, 2 thru lanes, and bike lanes and/or wider sidewalks. Most 4 lane roads in Toronto are effectively 2 lane roads anyway, due to a combination of left hand turning cars and cars parked in the right lane. 4 lane roads are effectively 2 lane slaloms.

I can see that working in dense areas, but not so well in suburbia where multiple lanes serve a purpose. What I'd like to see though is on roads which are 3 lanes wide on each direction, reserve the far right one for buses and right turners.
 

W. K. Lis

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Another problem with Toronto street layout is the lack of left turn lanes along streetcar tracks. There are some, but not extensive. Most of the new streetcar routes being built in the States, are "new" and have the real estate available to make adjustments to the roadway.
Benning-Road-Streetcar.jpg


Toronto's downtown is built up, so taking real estate to put in left turn lanes is hard to do. There are some left turn lanes along some streetcar routes in Toronto, but they do need to be expanded. Its the somehow that is the problem.
streetcar-4102-13.jpg
 

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pman

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The two photos give a nice contrast between Toronto's public realm and somewhere less clueless.
 
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junctionist

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St. Clair West looks more like the first photo than the second. (Why did that city even go for mixed-traffic operation? The street is wide enough for a right of way.)

In fact, St. Clair has what are probably the narrowest lanes you'll find in North America to accommodate the ROW.
 
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Palma

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Only issue with that would be right turns, especially at intersections with large pedestrian volumes. It's my only gripe about the current arrangement on Sherbourne. There are times when no cars can get through an intersection because they are stuck behind a right turning vehicle which cannot turn because of a constant stream of pedestrians, and the left turn lane is occupied by a left turning vehicle. Mind you, banning right turns at these intersections makes it much safer for pedestrians and cyclists anyway.

Should there not be right-hand green turn for cars but no walking for pedestrians so that those cars can make right-hand turns?
 

W. K. Lis

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Interesting video. They reduced traffic lanes to speed them up, but still provide safety for pedestrians.

[video=youtube;-vzDDMzq7d0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vzDDMzq7d0#t=625[/video]
 

Coruscanti Cognoscente

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Very interesting video. I'd like to see something like that done here, although I am a little worried that Ontario drivers would be too stupid to "get it".
 

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