[sweetlou]

The hearing continues tomorrow. There's a bit more evidence to present, then the lawyers get to throw legal incantations at each other, and the judge has to make a big decision.

Can ordinary muggles be present during the legal incantations?

 

[whatthe]

Can ordinary muggles be present during the legal incantations?

Yup!

 

[Roy's Square]

Can ordinary muggles be present during the legal incantations?

Yup.

Courtroom 125 on the second floor of Old City Hall, northwest corner, starting at 10:00 AM.

I'd be there myself, but I'm a bit burned out from the last three days; and unlike my new press friends, I don't get paid.

 

[toonderly]

I'm really sick of people saying that here. For what seems like the millionth time, no, she's not. He will be required to testify in September.

What if he's even sicker (or worse) by September? We've been waiting for what seems like forever to see Robbie face terrestrial judgement -- September seems very far away and it's frustrating to see the can get kicked down the road.

I wonder if the judges who granted his appeal on the original COI ever regret it. I suppose even that wouldn't have made much difference since council stripped him of powers and the first decision didn't even prevent him from running in 2014.

 

[whatthe]

What if he's even sicker (or worse) by September? We've been waiting for what seems like forever to see Robbie face terrestrial judgement -- September seems very far away and it's frustrating to see the can get kicked down the road.

I wonder if the judges who granted his appeal on the original COI ever regret it. I suppose even that wouldn't have made much difference since council stripped him of powers and the first decision didn't even prevent him from running in 2014.

Yes, but remember Ford isn't the one on trial here. He is simply one of many witnesses in this case. Witnesses are generally accommodated by the courts when there is medical evidence supporting that they should be. I can assure you that Justice Greene isn't doing Rob Ford any favours because she wants to. In fact, I am quite certain she probably despises him. She's exercising her judicial function as she must. Not because she wants to give him a "free pass". She has medical evidence before her that he is currently too ill to testify, and that he is likely to be better in September. That is what she has to go by.

 

[expat]

Yes, but remember Ford isn't the one on trial here. He is simply one of many witnesses in this case. Witnesses are generally accommodated by the courts when there is medical evidence supporting that they should be. I can assure you that Justice Greene isn't doing Rob Ford any favours because she wants to. In fact, I am quite certain she probably despises him. She's exercising her judicial function as she must. Not because she wants to give him a "free pass". She has medical evidence before her that he is currently too ill to testify, and that he is likely to be better in September. That is what she has to go by.

i agree that the legal decision is clear. but on a more basic level, she was confronted with (we assume?) a "doctor's note" to the effect that this witness isn't well enough to sit in a comfortable chair across the street from his office and answer some questions. she also, unless she's been under a rock, is confronted with all kinds of evidence to the contrary: rob's travelled abroad, campaigned for others, cut ribbons, sat in council, and done promo work recently. there's no school teacher on earth who would accept rob's sick note.

i would not bet $10 of my own money that rob will ever take the stand. in fact, i'm pretty sure that come september there will be some other excuse.

 

[whatthe]

i agree that the legal decision is clear. but on a more basic level, she was confronted with (we assume?) a "doctor's note" to the effect that this witness isn't well enough to sit in a comfortable chair across the street from his office and answer some questions. she also, unless she's been under a rock, is confronted with all kinds of evidence to the contrary: rob's travelled abroad, campaigned for others, cut ribbons, sat in council, and done promo work recently. there's no school teacher on earth who would accept rob's sick note.

i would not bet $10 of my own money that rob will ever take the stand. in fact, i'm pretty sure that come september there will be some other excuse.

As far as I am aware, she hasn't been given ANY evidence other than medical reports. In a court of law, twitter and the news aren't evidence.

 

[Roy's Square]

I had a nice chat with Justice Greene's clerk during a break this morning, who I must say is one of the nicest clerks to one of the nicest judges I have ever encountered in the Ontario judicial system (admittedly a very small sample, but still.)

He is an older man, so I can only assume he's seen it all, and he insisted that testifying as a witness is terribly stressful. As he put it, you're all alone up there on the stand with no one at all to help you, and it is nothing compared to sitting through council meetings or marching in Easter parades.

I am not one to defend Robbie in anything he does, but rest assured, although in my opinion, he has clearly used the system to his advantage (one of the advantages of having Canada's Greatest Criminal Lawyer on your side), he is not getting special treatment, nor is he pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.

If it was you or me, we might have to go a little further to prove we were legitimately sick, but his illness and his prognosis has been well publicized and so, as a matter of course (with a doctor's note), he was let off the hook, for now.

 

[expat]

I am not one to defend Robbie in anything he does, but rest assured, although in my opinion, he has clearly used the system to his advantage (one of the advantages of having Canada's Greatest Criminal Lawyer on your side), he is not getting special treatment, nor is he pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.

If it was you or me, we might have to go a little further to prove we were legitimately sick, but his illness and his prognosis has been well publicized and so, as a matter of course (with a doctor's note), he was let off the hook, for now.

these two things seem contradictory to me: either justice is blind or it isn't. and surely this leans up against the margins of a 'reasonableness' test.

anyway, thanks for this - publication ban notwithstanding, it really is something to live in a country where we have the right to go watch these proceedings in the first place, and to debate them afterwards.

 

[dforthandbview]

I had a nice chat with Justice Greene's clerk during a break this morning, who I must say is one of the nicest clerks to one of the nicest judges I have ever encountered in the Ontario judicial system (admittedly a very small sample, but still.)

He is an older man, so I can only assume he's seen it all

He seems like a jolly fella. I saw him in the courtroom wearing suspenders before he had a chance to put on his garb. I chuckled.

 

[dforthandbview]

as a matter of course (with a doctor's note), he was let off the hook, for now.

I would not be surprised if he tries the same thing come September. "I'm still recovering from surgery, I can't testify".

 

[Roy's Square]

these two things seem contradictory to me: either justice is blind or it isn't. and surely this leans up against the margins of a 'reasonableness' test.

anyway, thanks for this - publication ban notwithstanding, it really is something to live in a country where we have the right to go watch these proceedings in the first place, and to debate them afterwards.

All it means is that, since Rob Ford's cancer has been widely publicized already, there is less reason to doubt it. If I, however, showed up with a note from my mom, the court would, not surprisingly, be more likely to look into it further.

I was further reassured to see that the CP24 report on the doctor's notes was brought up in court. It told me they were paying more attention to the outside world than I had previously thought.

I think the bigger problem is that court seems to me a generally civil and congenial place. Justice needs to be done, but the feeling is that there's no reason we can't all be respectful of each other and the law. Petty criminals push at this in their own petty ways, but it's the well connected thugs, with the money and the power who play us all to their advantage.

But I won't mention any names.

 

[adma]

What if he's even sicker (or worse) by September? We've been waiting for what seems like forever to see Robbie face terrestrial judgement -- September seems very far away and it's frustrating to see the can get kicked down the road.

Does anyone think that Rob Ford actually has some kind of death wish? Like, he *knows* he's effed up in just so many ways, and he's running out of parachutes--could he be actually seeing his own cancer-ridden mortality as a lucky-break opportunity to give all those who wronged him (not just in politics, but perhaps even going back to his childhood--his own family, even) their just desserts?

Even in his days as Councillor, I felt there was just something so *chillingly ominous* about him--maybe because of his explosive behaviour being compounded by his physical resemblance to Ralph Hadley, whose Pickering murder-suicide in 2000 was one of the more chilling microcosms of domestic violence the GTA's ever seen. (Actually, Hadley looked more like Doug; but back then, we didn't really know Doug--let's just say, he looked "Ford-like".)

It's almost like if we had a US-style freedom-to-bear-arms culture, I could see pre-2010 Councillor Rob going berzerk with a rifle on Council before turning the rifle on himself.

 

[kbdid]

All it means is that, since Rob Ford's cancer has been widely publicized already, there is less reason to doubt it. If I, however, showed up with a note from my mom, the court would, not surprisingly, be more likely to look into it further.

I was further reassured to see that the CP24 report on the doctor's notes was brought up in court. It told me they were paying more attention to the outside world than I had previously thought.

I think the bigger problem is that court seems to me a generally civil and congenial place. Justice needs to be done, but the feeling is that there's no reason we can't all be respectful of each other and the law. Petty criminals push at this in their own petty ways, but it's the well connected thugs, with the money and the power who play us all to their advantage.

But I won't mention any names.

Bolding mine - not so sure about that; consider the first day of Lisi's marijuana trial when the judge (maybe begrudgingly) accepted that Lisi's Mom said he was too sick to attend since he had vertigo and was throwing up.

 

[Lamport Davenport]

I can believe Sandro was actually sick. That day.

Rob, not so much.