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Would you buy an EV from a Chinese OEM?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 6 60.0%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Total voters
    10

lenaitch

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I don't doubt this for a minute. But (at the risk of sounding a bit old and crusty, but perhaps not atypical) as a car buyer I find I'm still turning up my nose at Hyundai and Kia, despite ample evidence that they build good cars. It's a newest to market thing, and I'm old enough to remember the Pony. Clearly lots of people are not of my mindset, as these cars are selling like hotcakes..... but Honda and Toyota do command brand loyalty. They have a huge opportunity to leverage that brand image.... or waste it.

(And in my defense, I have never owed a Buick..... ;-) )

- Paul
I'm old enough to remember when 'Jap Scrap' was a common term. Early Japanese cars in North America were mechanically very sound, but you could just about watch the bodies rot away and it took them a number of years to make them suitable for the NA market. We had an early generation Pony. The story back then was they drew their engineering from all the military equipment left behind after the Korean War. I don't know how true it was, but if you looked under the hood, it looked an awful lot like looking under the hood of an early '50s North American vehicle. The Pony wasn't inherently a bad vehicle, just very, very basic. For all of their limitations, the Asian and European compact cars were generally far and away better that the early North American attempts.

My problem with buying any new vehicle line would be the parts and dealership network. North American vehicles are built with parts sourced from all over the world, supported by an aftermarket industry. How proprietary are the parts in a Chinese-made vehicle? Can my local indy shop access their OBD codes? With the current and potentially near-term geo-political situation with Taiwan, South China Sea, etc., entire supply chains could be disrupted quite easily if virtually everything nut and bolt has to come from China. Being the larger market, especially California, how willing is the average US buyer willing to support a Chinese manufacturer? Stuff made in China (and Viet Nam and Mexico, etc.) for worldwide brands is something a lot of consumers don't usually dwell on, but a Chinese-branded company, I'm not sure.

Maybe they could scare the North American into upping their game, much like
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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This is not entirely true. As part of the diesel gate settlement, Volkswagen put in money into Electrify America and Electrify Canada charging networks. Since the launch, more automakers have signed on to support that network. And they are building out at a decent pace.

There's also the utilities. OPG and Hydro One are building out the Ivy Charging network. Quebec Hydro owns the Electric Circuit charging network, one of the largest networks in the country.
true but they are still behind with supechargers Tesla has
 

MisterF

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There's also the utilities. OPG and Hydro One are building out the Ivy Charging network. Quebec Hydro owns the Electric Circuit charging network, one of the largest networks in the country.
So far I'm not blown away by what Ivy is offering. Their DC fast chargers top out at 50 kw. That's pretty weak compared to Petro Canada and EC, let alone Tesla. Especially given the charging speeds that the new generation of EVs can accept.
 

lenaitch

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So far I'm not blown away by what Ivy is offering. Their DC fast chargers top out at 50 kw. That's pretty weak compared to Petro Canada and EC, let alone Tesla. Especially given the charging speeds that the new generation of EVs can accept.

Their website shows a couple of locations with higher energy availability but, ya, most out at 50kw.
 

kEiThZ

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So far I'm not blown away by what Ivy is offering. Their DC fast chargers top out at 50 kw. That's pretty weak compared to Petro Canada and EC, let alone Tesla. Especially given the charging speeds that the new generation of EVs can accept.
Their intent seems to be targeting the commercial sector. Hence the match up with Home Depot. A lot of those folks don't need more than 50 kWh.

At the end of the day the big question in Ontario will always be about the OnRoutes. They don't seem to have come around on charging yet.
 

kEiThZ

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Something frustrating here is that this is all moving much faster than anticipated. But our authorities don't seem that interested in planning to this reality of adoption moving faster than anticipated.
 

MisterF

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Took them long enough.

Ivy Charging Network to install 69 EV fast chargers at ONroute, Ontario’s largest highway service centre operator

After years of being a no-show when it came to electric vehicle charging infrastructure, ONroute Service Centres says that EV charging stations will be arriving at all 23 of its plazas, located along Ontario’s 401 and 400 highways where it has the exclusive right to operate.
According to the announcement, Ivy DC fast chargers will be deployed and open at 17 ONroute locations sometime next summer. Three more locations are to be outfitted with Ivy chargers by the end of 2022. Ivy is the “exclusive EV charging partner” of ONroute, the company confirms.
 

crs1026

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An average of 3 charger per service station ain't much to write home about. But I blame the government for that. Not Ivy.

That was my first reaction also. Not just government…. at some level of deployment the hydro supply may need to be upgraded.

The chargers are fast when measured as a single car transaction, but if a queue forms….

It’s the right direction, but we have not reached widescale deployment of EV’s. I suspect owners are still a fairly select group who are inclined to manage their range carefully. One sees lots of EV’s on the road and seldom sees one abandoned or out-of-gas. That may change a lot as they are deployed in more business sectors and to “average” drivers who have less overall insight into their vehicles.

ONRoute is an interesting market - given higher than city gas prices, I suspect few motorists plan to gas up there. It’s the driver who sees the fuel light come on and doesn’t know or care to navigate off the highway to refuel.

- Paul
 

kEiThZ

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That was my first reaction also. Not just government…. at some level of deployment the hydro supply may need to be upgraded.

This is exactly why Ivy Charging was selected. It's a joint venture of OPG and Hydro One. Given the exclusivity that Canadian Tire had on auto servicing at the OnRoutes, this needed to be a three way deal between Canadian Tire, the OnRoute owners (Arjun Partners) and some agency acting on behalf of Hydro One (now Ivy Charging).

The chargers are fast when measured as a single car transaction, but if a queue forms….

Given that they screwed the pooch with Tesla, and pushed them to build all their Superchargers off the highway, the traffic to the fast chargers at these Service Centres should be manageable for now. Especially since, they are mostly going to be up and running in the next 3-4 months. But I agree. I wonder if they've planned sufficiently for scalability and future demands. Electrify Canada, for example, has built in a 350 kW charger at every location. This way, somebody who needs to charge their Porsche in a real hurry, or their gigantic F150 battery pack in a reasonable amount of time, has an option. With these 150 kW chargers, anybody with a truck that is towing something, might be there for the better part of an hour.

It’s the right direction, but we have not reached widescale deployment of EV’s. I suspect owners are still a fairly select group who are inclined to manage their range carefully. One sees lots of EV’s on the road and seldom sees one abandoned or out-of-gas. That may change a lot as they are deployed in more business sectors and to “average” drivers who have less overall insight into their vehicles.

ONRoute is an interesting market - given higher than city gas prices, I suspect few motorists plan to gas up there. It’s the driver who sees the fuel light come on and doesn’t know or care to navigate off the highway to refuel.

Since most people can charge at home with EVs, the only time people charge away from home will be on roadtrips. And the costs are low enough, that nobody is going to go hunting to save a few cents per kWh for this one occasion. It is a major branding coup for Ivy Charging. Being at the OnRoutes will probably make them the default charging network for a lot of Ontarians.

I was really hoping to see more substantial investment along the like of Gridserve in the UK or Fastned in the Netherlands. A dozen or more chargers to start. Solar canopies over the spot. Never get why we always get such mediocre bare bones infrastructure a decade after everybody else in the developed world. It wouldn't have taken much (maybe $1-2M per location) to build what I'm suggesting, and they would have recovered that in due course. Dunno why the CIB or Queen's Park couldn't step up with some grants and financing.
 

HighSpeedOne

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Electric regional flights could disrupt projects like HFR. They certainly could provide the solution to flight shaming without the need for a mode shift.
 

kEiThZ

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Electric regional flights could disrupt projects like HFR. They certainly could provide the solution to flight shaming without the need for a mode shift.

This is like an arguing that an E-bike is a replacement for the subway system.

You should look up the capacity difference between High Speed Rail and these new electric airplanes.
 

Towered

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This is like an arguing that an E-bike is a replacement for the subway system.

You should look up the capacity difference between High Speed Rail and these new electric airplanes.

It's like saying that we should keep and refurbish our existing coal plants and not invest in wind or solar power because, lo and behold, in the future we'll have access to nuclear fusion.
 

kEiThZ

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Read the article. They are arguing against high speed rail citing the deployment of electric 19-seat airliners by a handful of very small regional air carriers.

I stand by comparison of an E-bike to the subway.

It's a particularly ignorant point of view when considering that the only thing saved is fuel. Imagine the land needed to build airports for the increased aviation demand. Imagine the ticket prices when paying for two pilots, for 19 passengers. It's particularly ironic that this piece comes out as Alitalia is blaming HSR in Italy for its death.


 

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