[ssiguy2]

Now I understand that the streetcar order could be "delayed" but god only knows what will happen in 3 days. Toronto transit plans seem to break down as soon as they are announced and this is why most Torontonians won't believe that even Eglinton will be built until the ribbon is cut.
Transit planning in Toronto seems to be nothing short of lunacy and it has to stop.

If I was McGuinty I would be cancelling every single dime promised until Toronto finally decides what it's doing.
He should cancel any funding for the Eglinton LRT and lay out a plan for mass/rapid transit for the entire GTA/Hamilton with strings attached. It should offer $10 billion by 2022 but only if the people of the GTA the cough up the remaining 35% and 15% by the feds. A truly massive plan to get an area of over 10,00,000 by 2030 moving.

All areas must benefit which is only fair as they will also be footing some of the bill.
The plan` should be very clear with technology, route, at grade/elevated/subway so know one could bitch that they aren't getting what they were promised.

The Plan:
All these lines MUST have complete grade separation so they can all be automated and must be either subway, SkyTrain, or monorail but not LRT as it has the lowest capcoity of the 4 and is the most expensive to build and takes longer to build when totally grade separated due to overhead wires and the trains have the shortest life expectancy.
A] Brampton----Pearson------Eglinton-------Kingston------UT Scar------Pickering
B} Extend BD west to connect with new Miss/Brampton LRT
C} Extend Yonge north north of HWY#7
D} DRL...Egl/DM.....Pape....Union.....DundasWest.....Weston....Woodbine......Humber
E} Sheppard........west to Spadina Ext and if there are any funds left from lines within the City of Toronto can be used for east ext to STC
F} Keep SRT as SkyTrain while extending it to Malvern, lengthening stations, improving Kennedy , heat the rails, buy MK11 trains
Following using ROW & mixed traffic using LRT
A} Dundas.....Hamilton........Stoney Creek
B} Hamilton........Burlington
C} Miss--------Brampton
D} Oshawa.....Whitby

It should be stated VERY clearly that it is a package deal and that any region that does not support it with 51% gets zero money including if the funding was already announced. ie if Miss does not get support from it's citizens then the Miss/Brampton LRT is cancelled.

Make it clear that the sales tax levied will be exactly the same as the HST and will effect all areas at, for example, 0.5%. 100% of the funding will go towards rapid transit construction and there will be an additional , for example, 6 cents/litre at the pump half of which will go towards their OWN local transit service ongoing operational costs and the other half for GO operational expenses. Make it clear that any other regions that want to get new GO service or it improved {ie Guelph/Niagara/Waterloo} must pay the 6 cents/liter as well. It must also be stated that if Waterloo or Ottawa want rapid transit funds they too must pay a percentage sales tax so Toronto won't been seen as having to pay for something that they won't have to.

Finally it is essential that all lines be completed by 2022 and that the sales tax will drop off at that time. It is essential that the taxpayers know that the money is going to nothing else except mass/rapid transit.

A complete package deal, no give or take but a concise plan and it's all or nothing.
If the citizens in a plebisite agree then work should begin as soon as possible in the most cost effective way possible so people don't see it as yet another tax that they won't benefit from. A clear map downloadable or at the local library where people can see the plan in clear manner with the technology being used, stations, which sections will be at grade, elevated, rail ROW, underground and when those sections will begin construction and when they will open with none later that 2022.

A simple yes or no plebisite showing the plan and so that if it doesn't get 51% region wide they get no money for anything and if 51% is reached but not one area {ie Halton} then they get no money at all.

This is what Toronto and Queen's Park should do and let the citizens put tons of pressure on the feds with all their new GTA MPs.

The Toronto Star should be first by doing a poll about such an idea and if most support it then discussions should begin immediately and a plebisite within 2 months and all the taxes to kick in Jan 2012.

Toronto needs great transit but it is unfair to expect that all Ontarians pay 100% of it.
Toronto could easily build such a system in 10 years and with a plebesite with a clear unambiguous plan will be above local political whims and use other cities as examples that use such revenue streams for their mass transit expansion such as L.A.

It really is time for Torontonians to put their money where their industrial size mouths are. It will cost the province more money but more importantly it gets extra infrastructure and operational funding and forces the fed to step up to the plate.

This message should be sent to a Toronto Star executive so maybe they would do such a poll.

 

[spider]

I will accept a 20% premium on top of my City of Toronto municipal tax bill for a 5 year period if 100% of it were spent on a DRL and nothing else. No streetcars below or at grade, nothing that simply dumps more riders on the Yonge subway that is already jammed.

 

[ssiguy2]

^ absolutely not.
This must be a GTA plan and all areas must contribute and benefit. It is unfair to expect Torontonians to pay, for example, the entire cost of the Eglinton line from Brampton to Pickering or a DRL that goes up to Humber and is used by GO commuters when they get downtown.
Toronto needs a MASSIVE plan just to regain lost ground such as what L.A. is doing. Toronto should already have a mass/rapid transit system 3x the size it has considering it's size and ridership. The new 20km of Eglinton expansion {the SRT section will replace a technology but not expand the system by one foot} is Mickey Mouse. Vancouver alone is building another 25km of SkyTrain this decade yet it's population is a only 40% of the GTA and growing at 30,000/year as opposed to Toronto's 110,000.

 

[Amy Rose]

Its ok, but the amount of added taxes might cause complaints, especially the majority of suburbanites using their SUVs and gas tax, but the timeline is somewhat insane to get everything done in that certain period of time, unless you are planning to do 24/7 construction and the EA gets rushed through, and the orders are set for LRVs, subway cars, monorail cars, etc. But this is too good to be true, because unless the dirt is going to get shoveled by the end of another term of Liberals if they win, we got quite a bit of transit history that even Hudak can't even bury it without paying billions of cancellation fees.

 

[ssiguy2]

If the 905ers don't want the funds then they get nothing. I think you find 905ers more supportive than you think and maybe more willing to kick in if their current lines are at risk.
The amount of expansion could easily be done if Toronto wanted to get it's ass in gear. By far the largest tunneled section would be Eglinton where everything is already set to go.
Almost all of the lines I stated can be done elevated or using existing rail ROW, hydro corridors and cetrainly elevated. All sections can be under construction at the same time using different contractors. Major cities in the world are expanding much faster than this......................it only seems large by Toronto standards.

 

[ssiguy2]

I'm finding this very interesting................the responses I have got from this thread or rather the lack or responses. Maybe I've touched a nerve? Is it possible that despite all the talk and bitching you don't think Torontonians are willing to put their money where their industrial size mouths are? Is it possible that despite how the citizens love to mock sprawling L.A. they are the ones who are willing to cough up the money even if it hits them in the pocket book?
By the lack of reponces maybe Ford is right after all and all Torontonians really want is "smooth, clean streets".

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

ssiguy I agree with you 100 percent. I would even go futher and include a lawrence line and extention to pickering. Too bad no one has the will to make this a better city.

 

[44 North]

The constitution would have to be changed in order for Toronto to receive significantly more funding for transit projects.

Other cities around the world can expand their transit systems because they aren't relegated to the status of third world former colonies (as Toronto currently is). Our municipal taxation powers are severely limited and based on the old Rural Canada of the BNA Act. Until our constitution is re-written to reflect a modern country where cities have far greater self-determination and financial powers, Toronto will continue to decline.

 

[ssiguy2]

Although I do know that our Constitution definately inhibits and constrains our urban growth and development that is still a bit of a copout.
Montrealers just brought in a 2 cent /liter gas tax throughout the metro are that will bring them in about $40 million/year. Translink has had gas taxes forever where 100% of all the funding goes directly to Translink and not the province or individual cities so the funds can only be used on transportation upgrades and operational expenses.
I would think that Queen's park would embrase such a move as any new tax revenue system would have the authorization of the people. Instead of being a tax and spend McGuinty could be seen as listening and abiding by the wishes of the voters.
I also don't understand why people in Toronto have this idea that people in the 905 would not want to pay for improved transit. If you look at the stats it is the suburban systems like York Transit and Brampton Transit and GO that have had the largest percentage increases in usuage over the last 10 years. People in the 905 hate sitting in traffic and appreciate good transit and have shown themselves to be very willing to take transit where it is a viable option.
GO is an excellent example where , if the service is provided, people will not only flock to the service but also are willing to pay a premium for it as remember most GO users do not live in the city of Toronto.
I still think someone should go to The Star about such an idea as a plebisite and the kind of support it would get in each region.

 

[adma]

I'm finding this very interesting................the responses I have got from this thread or rather the lack or responses. Maybe I've touched a nerve? Is it possible that despite all the talk and bitching you don't think Torontonians are willing to put their money where their industrial size mouths are? Is it possible that despite how the citizens love to mock sprawling L.A. they are the ones who are willing to cough up the money even if it hits them in the pocket book?
By the lack of reponces maybe Ford is right after all and all Torontonians really want is "smooth, clean streets".

I think the lack of response has more to do with sensible folk not wanting to engage a monorail-monomaniac who writes like he's on heavy psychiatric medication.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think the lack of response has more to do with sensible folk not wanting to engage a monorail-monomaniac who writes like he's on heavy psychiatric medication.

You need to chill.

Besides, he's right.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Although I do know that our Constitution definately inhibits and constrains our urban growth and development that is still a bit of a copout.
Montrealers just brought in a 2 cent /liter gas tax throughout the metro are that will bring them in about $40 million/year. Translink has had gas taxes forever where 100% of all the funding goes directly to Translink and not the province or individual cities so the funds can only be used on transportation upgrades and operational expenses.
I would think that Queen's park would embrase such a move as any new tax revenue system would have the authorization of the people. Instead of being a tax and spend McGuinty could be seen as listening and abiding by the wishes of the voters.
I also don't understand why people in Toronto have this idea that people in the 905 would not want to pay for improved transit. If you look at the stats it is the suburban systems like York Transit and Brampton Transit and GO that have had the largest percentage increases in usuage over the last 10 years. People in the 905 hate sitting in traffic and appreciate good transit and have shown themselves to be very willing to take transit where it is a viable option.
GO is an excellent example where , if the service is provided, people will not only flock to the service but also are willing to pay a premium for it as remember most GO users do not live in the city of Toronto.
I still think someone should go to The Star about such an idea as a plebisite and the kind of support it would get in each region.

I need to send this to metrolinx.

 

[smallspy]

The constitution would have to be changed in order for Toronto to receive significantly more funding for transit projects.

Other cities around the world can expand their transit systems because they aren't relegated to the status of third world former colonies (as Toronto currently is). Our municipal taxation powers are severely limited and based on the old Rural Canada of the BNA Act. Until our constitution is re-written to reflect a modern country where cities have far greater self-determination and financial powers, Toronto will continue to decline.

It's not the Constitution, it's the Provincial Ontario Municipal Act (and its predecessors). According to the constitution, cities are the creation of the Provinces.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Mapleson]

So will you be putting up or shutting up? You seem to live in a world detacted from reality, and the object when reality intrudes. You speak of Toronto as if it were a single mind with a single identity; it's not. The suburban commuter has as much say as the downtown monorail lover. McGinty had $15 billion in funding for the GTA until the recession hit and we trimmed back to $8 billion.

McGinty will be in office for three more months for sure, after that it's a different political ball game. How do you think Rob Ford or Hazel McCallion would react to a plan offered up by the provincial liberals if they were forced to dance a merry jig? They'd say "keep your money, I respect taxpayers" and compaign on the fascist nature of McGinty. When you make things into absolutes, it just means there is more space for everyone to lose.

 

[Justin10000]

I think the lack of response has more to do with sensible folk not wanting to engage a monorail-monomaniac who writes like he's on heavy psychiatric medication.

Or that we have heard the same nonsense many times to bother replying.