Automation Gallery

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419 COLLEGE ST
Ward 11 - Tor & E.York District
419 COLLEGE ST​
421 COLLEGE ST​
423 COLLEGE ST​
429 COLLEGE ST​
431 COLLEGE ST​

Proposal for a 13-storey mixed-use building with retail/commercial at grade. The proposal consists of a total of 169 dwelling units and 13,009.1 square metres of combined residential and non-residential gross floor area, resulting in a FSI of 6.64 times the lot area.
Proposed Use ---​
# of Storeys ---​
# of Units ---​
Type​
Number​
Date Submitted​
Status​
Applications:
OPA & Rezoning​
20 190121 STE 11 OZ​
Sep 4, 2020​
Application Received​

Gee now Sneaky Dee's is goingo_O

sneeky dee.PNG
 
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AlbertC

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Sneaky Dee's is a Toronto icon and will be a sad day when it has to close. Haven't been there in some time, but I've always enjoyed their Trivia nights and nachos. Perhaps they may be able to find a new home eventually, but just like the Green Room it's just not the same. The addresses involved also includes the buildings where Quetzal, Ramen Isshin, The Hideout/Nest, and RBC are located.
 

Northern Light

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The buildings in this assembly are universally unremarkable, insofar as what replaces them is even moderately above-average architecturally this will be a welcome proposal.
 

UtakataNoAnnex

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In a better world and with my own fond memories and delicious phat burrito's of the place, 13 stories of Sneaky Dees over 5 properties upgrade wouldn't be a bad thing...

...sadly, I don't live in that reality. /le sigh
 

Amare

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Not that i''m opposing development at this site because to be honest this corner needs much better than what's currently on site, but it's getting nauseating how many music/entertainment venues Toronto is losing.

At the rate we're going, downtown Toronto is going to be completely soul-suckingly dry in the next 10-15 years. The only form of entertainment we'll have in the area will be watching a TV at a generic chain restaurant/bar.
 

Towered

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Not that i''m opposing development at this site because to be honest this corner needs much better than what's currently on site, but it's getting nauseating how many music/entertainment venues Toronto is losing.

At the rate we're going, downtown Toronto is going to be completely soul-suckingly dry in the next 10-15 years. The only form of entertainment we'll have in the area will be watching a TV at a generic chain restaurant/bar.

It's already like that now. Just look at the downgrade Queen street has undergone in the last 20-30 years.
 

bilked

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The second floor of Sneaky Dees is also a venue space so this development will be taking out two music venues in one fell swoop.
 

Northern Light

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I'm amazed at the number of people who are fond of Sneaky Dees and lament its loss.

The food/drink was terrible, the ambiance .......uh........uh...

The buildings are all forgettable.

I understand the desire to see live music venues; I like those too; though this was not one of my favs............ I enjoyed Art Bar at the Gladstone; am still keen on C'est What; among other small spaces.

That said, Alex Bozikovic's lamentation on this......while he regularly derides the notion of preserving beautiful Victorian streetscapes because he'd rather seen an apartment there......rather annoyed me.

 

P23

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In terms of food I'd say Isshin is a bigger loss, but there's other ramen around. There needs to be an effort on the part of the city to protect or replace music venues though, especially after the current crisis blows over. The number of live venues downtown is rapidly dwindling, it was already a problem before the lockdown.
 

Avenue

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I'm amazed at the number of people who are fond of Sneaky Dees and lament its loss.

The food/drink was terrible, the ambiance .......uh........uh...

The buildings are all forgettable.

I understand the desire to see live music venues; I like those too; though this was not one of my favs............ I enjoyed Art Bar at the Gladstone; am still keen on C'est What; among other small spaces.

That said, Alex Bozikovic's lamentation on this......while he regularly derides the notion of preserving beautiful Victorian streetscapes because he'd rather seen an apartment there......rather annoyed me.



Yeah but what does your personal taste have to do with anything here? It's silly like saying you're fine with all the bars on Church street going down and getting replaced by condos because gay guys never appealed to you... The point here is beyond whether the Sneaky Dee's "ambiance" is classy enough or not.
 

turini2

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Query - here in London, the London Plan culture & creative policies support protection of cultural venues like Sneaky Dee's - while still promoting new development. The agent of change principle also ensures that new development doesn't kick out adjacent "noisy" uses.
The agent of change principle states that property developers building next to existing clubs, bars and gig venues would have to ensure the new build was designed to avoid any future possible noise issues, covering the cost of sound-proofing and other means of avoiding such issues.

I can think of a fair few examples where the developer has had to design a new development with space for a prayer hall, cultural space or even just a famous nightclub. At the massive redevelopment of the Elephant and Castle shopping complex, the proposal hung in the balance on the reprovision of a bingo hall!
It's becoming a common selling tactic too - when there's going to be a much loved community theatre or LGBT bar relocated into the new development.

Do Toronto's planning policies encourage anything similar - encouraging developers to work with existing cultural uses?
 

AlbertC

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Personally, I have Isshin as within my Top 3 ramen spots in the city. Although, for their business model it should be relatively easy to relocate if needed. As I'd imagine they would considering their popular following.

The main concern with Sneaky Dee's is the potential loss of its entertainment and cultural contributions to the city. It's always been a place for alternative nightlife and live music goers. The ultimate and one of the original antithesis' still remaining to the King West-bottle service crowd. They also host weekly trivia nights which is always packed and fills up the entire upstairs space. Secondarily, the Hideout/Nest represents another live music/dance club space along this same block which would also be affected.

We've seen through the years that whenever a music and/or entertainment venue closes up in the downtown core, there is tremendous difficulty to find a replacement. Especially in terms of affordable rent, spatial requirements, and suitable location. And majority of the time, they are gone for good. That's been the case for the Matador, the Big Bop, the Hoxton, Nocturne, several others in the Queen & Bathurst area, Gate 403, etc.
 

AlbertC

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Query - here in London, the London Plan culture & creative policies support protection of cultural venues like Sneaky Dee's - while still promoting new development. The agent of change principle also ensures that new development doesn't kick out adjacent "noisy" uses.
The agent of change principle states that property developers building next to existing clubs, bars and gig venues would have to ensure the new build was designed to avoid any future possible noise issues, covering the cost of sound-proofing and other means of avoiding such issues.

I can think of a fair few examples where the developer has had to design a new development with space for a prayer hall, cultural space or even just a famous nightclub. At the massive redevelopment of the Elephant and Castle shopping complex, the proposal hung in the balance on the reprovision of a bingo hall!
It's becoming a common selling tactic too - when there's going to be a much loved community theatre or LGBT bar relocated into the new development.

Do Toronto's planning policies encourage anything similar - encouraging developers to work with existing cultural uses?

It's rather rare for new developments in Toronto to provide a direct replacement space for whatever entertainment venue that it replaced to return. The only example that comes to mind is the Silver Dollar Room, which is expected to return to the base of the Waverley project on Spadina, north of College when it's all complete.

Majority of projects do not accommodate in such manner, and the previous venue would either try to move on to a new location or is gone for good. That's been the case for Zipperz at Carlton/Church which became the Stanley Condos, Fly at Gloucester/Yonge which is becoming the upcoming Ivy rental project, and various other examples of former clubs within the Entertainment District.

Currently, there are discussions between the developer of a proposed future project along Church Street that would involve the building where Crews & Tangos is located, and the community. Although, it's still early days in the process, and uncertain of what the outcome will be.
 

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