Bayer

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Whether or not one likes Sneaky Dee's, it's irrelevant. No business that rents is entitled to the premises forever. Property owners want to make money, period. I once had a small office I absolutely loved at the Eaton Centre, until CF asked us to leave to consolidate several such offices for a larger tenant, so we moved out, that's it. Sneaky Dee's can try to find another location.
 
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ShonTron

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The problem isn't the buildings themselves (which are not heritage and aren't worthy of preservation by any means), it's that new construction - especially investor-driven condos - don't provide the spaces for places like Sneaky Disease or The Real Jerk to thrive. Remember the hue and cry when The Real Jerk wanted to move into a condo's retail space, even when such a location *was* set up for a restaurant? The location The Real Jerk ended up at was a better fit - but that little plaza at Gerrard and Carlaw will probably disappear at some point too.

Music venues, good bars, many restaurants and the sort aren't welcome in condos because of noise concerns, and condos themselves are built in a way that exclude many other businesses with large wide storefronts (only to be blocked by Shoppers Drug Mart's window film), high rents, and poor layouts.

You want to ensure these types of places survive? Force developers to build retail spaces that can handle the variety of businesses that attract people to city living in the first place.
 

innsertnamehere

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The problem isn't the buildings themselves (which are not heritage and aren't worthy of preservation by any means), it's that new construction - especially investor-driven condos - don't provide the spaces for places like Sneaky Disease or The Real Jerk to thrive. Remember the hue and cry when The Real Jerk wanted to move into a condo's retail space, even when such a location *was* set up for a restaurant? The location The Real Jerk ended up at was a better fit - but that little plaza at Gerrard and Carlaw will probably disappear at some point too.

Music venues, good bars, many restaurants and the sort aren't welcome in condos because of noise concerns, and condos themselves are built in a way that exclude many other businesses with large wide storefronts (only to be blocked by Shoppers Drug Mart's window film), high rents, and poor layouts.

You want to ensure these types of places survive? Force developers to build retail spaces that can handle the variety of businesses that attract people to city living in the first place.
"sneaky disease" is officially my new term for our collectively favourite major global event this year.
 

ProjectEnd

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The problem isn't the buildings themselves (which are not heritage and aren't worthy of preservation by any means), it's that new construction - especially investor-driven condos - don't provide the spaces for places like Sneaky Disease or The Real Jerk to thrive. Remember the hue and cry when The Real Jerk wanted to move into a condo's retail space, even when such a location *was* set up for a restaurant? The location The Real Jerk ended up at was a better fit - but that little plaza at Gerrard and Carlaw will probably disappear at some point too.

Music venues, good bars, many restaurants and the sort aren't welcome in condos because of noise concerns, and condos themselves are built in a way that exclude many other businesses with large wide storefronts (only to be blocked by Shoppers Drug Mart's window film), high rents, and poor layouts.

You want to ensure these types of places survive? Force developers to build retail spaces that can handle the variety of businesses that attract people to city living in the first place.
 

Northern Light

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A really good, balanced Blog on the possible demise of Sneaky Dees.


From said piece above:

(UPDATE: I’ve also heard via a former employee that the owners are considering a move to a new location.)
 

TrickyRicky

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ShonTron makes an excellent point regarding condo form; however, the concentration of condos is only terminal in small districts of the City.

There is ample land and space for music venues and any number of cool interesting commercial uses. The problem is we regulated them all to death.

As an example we had intended a bubble birthday party in a backyard but it was raining so we had dim sum takeout at tables set up in a laneway garage. There is as much potential to animate a single downtown back laneway with affordable venues and restaurants and shops as there is on an entire mainstreet stretch if regulation allowed it.
 

khris

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You want to ensure these types of places survive? Force developers to build retail spaces that can handle the variety of businesses that attract people to city living in the first place.
I think a lot of these people moving downtown from the suburbs because "downtown is cool," want to live downtown with all the luxuries of suburban living. Ie. big box retail and corporate bars and restaurants. :rolleyes:
 

Northern Light

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I think a lot of these people moving downtown from the suburbs because "downtown is cool," want to live downtown with all the luxuries of suburban living. Ie. big box retail and corporate bars and restaurants. :rolleyes:

Big box stores and corporate restos are luxuries? Not in my world.
 

Northern Light

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Ownership of Sneaky Dees confirming it will live on; possibly (but not necessarily) in the new development.

 

am29

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The problem isn't the buildings themselves (which are not heritage and aren't worthy of preservation by any means), it's that new construction - especially investor-driven condos - don't provide the spaces for places like Sneaky Disease or The Real Jerk to thrive. Remember the hue and cry when The Real Jerk wanted to move into a condo's retail space, even when such a location *was* set up for a restaurant? The location The Real Jerk ended up at was a better fit - but that little plaza at Gerrard and Carlaw will probably disappear at some point too.

Music venues, good bars, many restaurants and the sort aren't welcome in condos because of noise concerns, and condos themselves are built in a way that exclude many other businesses with large wide storefronts (only to be blocked by Shoppers Drug Mart's window film), high rents, and poor layouts.

You want to ensure these types of places survive? Force developers to build retail spaces that can handle the variety of businesses that attract people to city living in the first place.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but the planning and rules that mold development in Toronto need to change, all the safety regulation in a new development make it economically less feasible to permit building smaller but more retail units. Building code needs to be more lax and efficient rather than restrictive driving up construction and development costs (this makes developers risk averse). We're seeing some innovation in this regard with STACKT Market by Bathurst and Front, but that is only temporary. I'd love to have more food halls and hawker centers here in Toronto, but from a development perspective it would be so risky to do operationally, due to codes, that no developer would risk their money for that. Also, the lack of development and real estate stock has also driven up rental prices for older brick and mortar retail spaces for these businesses to move when they have to relocated due to a new development. We're seeing some of this happen where newer businesses are moving to Danforth in the recent few years but it's not liquid and many businesses just shut down due to not being able to find a spot at the current market rate of rent to keep their operating margins. This destroys the value that their businesses brand holds in the city and is a hit to the overall health of the city's heritage.
 

ChesterCopperpot

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Ownership of Sneaky Dees confirming it will live on; possibly (but not necessarily) in the new development.


In that article it says "The redevelopment of the block is also notably contingent upon maintaining a live music venue on the corner, which current owners hope will stay under the Sneaks banner." I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere.
 

Northern Light

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In that article it says "The redevelopment of the block is also notably contingent upon maintaining a live music venue on the corner, which current owners hope will stay under the Sneaks banner." I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere.

I observed that too. Didn't know what to do w/that.

Who is imposing said contingency? One of the pre-existing owners? Pretty sure based on what Cllr Layton has been saying, it isn't the City..........yet.
 

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