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Richard White

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Crosstown in the wild. Spotted at Lebovic this afternoon by my mother.

20220329_144632.jpg
 

KhalilHeron

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This is something that Toronto cannot fathom to do. I believe it has to do with our history of streetcar tracks in the middle of the road. Other places put LRT's on one side of the ROW and roads on the other, often also putting bike lanes in their own dedicated 2 way strip as well. We can't seem to figure this out. It makes way more sense this way and is safer for everyone, rather than mixing cars, LRTs and bike lanes on each side.

The big advantage to this too, down the entire strip of at-grade, is that LRT's are less impeded by traffic. You can have cars turn left and right at the intersection on one side while the LRT can still go through on the other. You don't have the issue of left hand turn lanes taking up space. Its easier to install crossing arms for the LRT as its only crossing one road and have much more dedicated service. It results in less collisions. People dont have to wait at stops that are in the middle of the roadway and potentially can get hit by a car while crossing etc. Bikeways can be put on the other side of the LRT, well away from traffic, where its much safer.

To make matters worse, the south side implementation of the 509 Harbourfront route was a disaster with little to no protections against pedestrians wandering into the streetcar ROW. Ontop of the fact that its a heavy tourist area. So this poor implementation simply solidified the TTC's stance that LRTs should be in the median.
There are plans at least for the Eglinton East LRT to run next to Morningside avenue on a separate through Morningside park so hopefully, that popularized not having to run LRTs in the Median (if it gets built) (also Humber college station on the FWLRT runs parallel to Highway 27 but its sunken so it doesn't really count)
 

youngblood

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smallspy

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This is something that Toronto cannot fathom to do. I believe it has to do with our history of streetcar tracks in the middle of the road. Other places put LRT's on one side of the ROW and roads on the other, often also putting bike lanes in their own dedicated 2 way strip as well. We can't seem to figure this out. It makes way more sense this way and is safer for everyone, rather than mixing cars, LRTs and bike lanes on each side.

The big advantage to this too, down the entire strip of at-grade, is that LRT's are less impeded by traffic. You can have cars turn left and right at the intersection on one side while the LRT can still go through on the other. You don't have the issue of left hand turn lanes taking up space. Its easier to install crossing arms for the LRT as its only crossing one road and have much more dedicated service. It results in less collisions. People dont have to wait at stops that are in the middle of the roadway and potentially can get hit by a car while crossing etc. Bikeways can be put on the other side of the LRT, well away from traffic, where its much safer.

To make matters worse, the south side implementation of the 509 Harbourfront route was a disaster with little to no protections against pedestrians wandering into the streetcar ROW. Ontop of the fact that its a heavy tourist area. So this poor implementation simply solidified the TTC's stance that LRTs should be in the median.

Early on in the consultation process, I asked one of the planners whether a south-side alignment was looked at between the portals at Brentcliffe and Don Mills. The response that he gave me was that it had been, but was felt to be not ideal for two reasons. The first was that it made transfers worse at Leslie, and the second was because the City planned to keep the grade-separated interchange at the west end of the former Celestica property. Apparently the then-projected traffic levels into and out of that new neighbourhood would have caused severe traffic congestion had that been left as an at-grade intersection.

Of course, the City had planned to remove the grade separated interchange at Wynford as part of the Crosstown, so I'm a bit torn in terms of what to believe.

Dan
 

innsertnamehere

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Early on in the consultation process, I asked one of the planners whether a south-side alignment was looked at between the portals at Brentcliffe and Don Mills. The response that he gave me was that it had been, but was felt to be not ideal for two reasons. The first was that it made transfers worse at Leslie, and the second was because the City planned to keep the grade-separated interchange at the west end of the former Celestica property. Apparently the then-projected traffic levels into and out of that new neighbourhood would have caused severe traffic congestion had that been left as an at-grade intersection.

Of course, the City had planned to remove the grade separated interchange at Wynford as part of the Crosstown, so I'm a bit torn in terms of what to believe.

Dan

That interchange will be retained now from my understanding, though the slip ramps will be changed to stop-signed controlled intersections. The underpass under Eglinton will remain.
 

superelevation

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Early on in the consultation process, I asked one of the planners whether a south-side alignment was looked at between the portals at Brentcliffe and Don Mills. The response that he gave me was that it had been, but was felt to be not ideal for two reasons. The first was that it made transfers worse at Leslie, and the second was because the City planned to keep the grade-separated interchange at the west end of the former Celestica property. Apparently the then-projected traffic levels into and out of that new neighbourhood would have caused severe traffic congestion had that been left as an at-grade intersection.

Of course, the City had planned to remove the grade separated interchange at Wynford as part of the Crosstown, so I'm a bit torn in terms of what to believe.

Dan
Feels very weak, impeding the entire Science Centre Complex for this
 

toronto647

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Proposed developments along Eglinton Ave from Yonge to Wynford Drive. With the recent announcement of the Ontario Line ground breaking ceremony I assume its safe to say developments will start picking up significantly around the Science Centre station (north and south to it) If the Eglinton LRT was able to do be such a catalyst I can only imagine the Ontario Line which will be a direct autonomous subway downtown.


IMG_6025.jpg
 

toronto647

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Townhalls - Next set of townhalls will be held end of April to mark the 6 month remaining point until when the project is transferred to the TTC

Will be interesting to see where they stand and what work is left to do
 

Obsidian

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This is something that Toronto cannot fathom to do. I believe it has to do with our history of streetcar tracks in the middle of the road. Other places put LRT's on one side of the ROW and roads on the other, often also putting bike lanes in their own dedicated 2 way strip as well. We can't seem to figure this out. It makes way more sense this way and is safer for everyone, rather than mixing cars, LRTs and bike lanes on each side.

The big advantage to this too, down the entire strip of at-grade, is that LRT's are less impeded by traffic. You can have cars turn left and right at the intersection on one side while the LRT can still go through on the other. You don't have the issue of left hand turn lanes taking up space. Its easier to install crossing arms for the LRT as its only crossing one road and have much more dedicated service. It results in less collisions. People dont have to wait at stops that are in the middle of the roadway and potentially can get hit by a car while crossing etc. Bikeways can be put on the other side of the LRT, well away from traffic, where its much safer.

To make matters worse, the south side implementation of the 509 Harbourfront route was a disaster with little to no protections against pedestrians wandering into the streetcar ROW. Ontop of the fact that its a heavy tourist area. So this poor implementation simply solidified the TTC's stance that LRTs should be in the median.
You would have the problem of right turning cars on every intersection which you don't have to worry about with the current design. The current design has to contend with left turning cars but their are many more right turns possible than left.
 

GenerationW

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Maybe they're
Early on in the consultation process, I asked one of the planners whether a south-side alignment was looked at between the portals at Brentcliffe and Don Mills. The response that he gave me was that it had been, but was felt to be not ideal for two reasons. The first was that it made transfers worse at Leslie, and the second was because the City planned to keep the grade-separated interchange at the west end of the former Celestica property. Apparently the then-projected traffic levels into and out of that new neighbourhood would have caused severe traffic congestion had that been left as an at-grade intersection.

Of course, the City had planned to remove the grade separated interchange at Wynford as part of the Crosstown, so I'm a bit torn in terms of what to believe.

Dan
Rejecting a southside alignment was so dumb. It's almost as if they didn't want to totally kill the possibility of a Leslie Street extension.
 

toronto647

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What do you mean by Leslie Street Extension?

I think I answered my own question... Is there any update on whether this would actually happen? Considering the EGLRT is almost built and a crazy amount of densification coming in plus add the Ontario Line into the mix ... and a substantial increase of population in Toronto especially in this area plus DVP always busy I think this project is a necessity at this point to get the city moving.

Why in the world haven't they actually built this? Seems to be a no brainer or am I missing something?

Leslie Street South of Eglinton Extension

When: 1960s to 1990s

Following initial suggestions in 1968 and failed proposals in 1971 and 1973, in 1976 Metro Planners brought forward a $20-million extension of Leslie Street south of Eglinton Avenue. Debates around the idea coincided with another valley-spanning proposal in the 1970s for the direct routing of Lawrence Avenue from Bayview to Leslie. Arguments in favour of a lengthened Leslie centred on eased congestion – at the Leslie/Eglinton bottleneck and at neighbouring north-south avenues – while arguments against cited ravine destruction. Another report in 1983 and an environmental study in 1984 seemingly had the now $50-million scheme moving forward, with the route involving a high-level bridge over Wilket Creek Park, followed by a road along the CPR Belleville line before emerging at the Bayview Extension near Nesbitt Drive. Citizen groups argued that, if allowed, the Leslie proposal would re-open the Spadina Expressway debate. In 1988, Metro Council voted in favour of the 4-lane extension, but the price had gone up to $74 million dollars. Debate and public consultations continued into the 1990s with no extension built. In 2000 and 2002, Toronto Councillor Jane Pitfield proposed lengthening Redway Road to Bayview. Opponents feared the damage to Crowthers Woods and a rehashing of the Leslie debate, and nothing came of that plan either.



Source: https://scenesto.com/2019/10/15/roads-never-built/
 

Jonny5

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I think I answered my own question... Is there any update on whether this would actually happen? Considering the EGLRT is almost built and a crazy amount of densification coming in plus add the Ontario Line into the mix ... and a substantial increase of population in Toronto especially in this area plus DVP always busy I think this project is a necessity at this point to get the city moving.

Why in the world haven't they actually built this? Seems to be a no brainer or am I missing something?

Leslie Street South of Eglinton Extension

When: 1960s to 1990s

Following initial suggestions in 1968 and failed proposals in 1971 and 1973, in 1976 Metro Planners brought forward a $20-million extension of Leslie Street south of Eglinton Avenue. Debates around the idea coincided with another valley-spanning proposal in the 1970s for the direct routing of Lawrence Avenue from Bayview to Leslie. Arguments in favour of a lengthened Leslie centred on eased congestion – at the Leslie/Eglinton bottleneck and at neighbouring north-south avenues – while arguments against cited ravine destruction. Another report in 1983 and an environmental study in 1984 seemingly had the now $50-million scheme moving forward, with the route involving a high-level bridge over Wilket Creek Park, followed by a road along the CPR Belleville line before emerging at the Bayview Extension near Nesbitt Drive. Citizen groups argued that, if allowed, the Leslie proposal would re-open the Spadina Expressway debate. In 1988, Metro Council voted in favour of the 4-lane extension, but the price had gone up to $74 million dollars. Debate and public consultations continued into the 1990s with no extension built. In 2000 and 2002, Toronto Councillor Jane Pitfield proposed lengthening Redway Road to Bayview. Opponents feared the damage to Crowthers Woods and a rehashing of the Leslie debate, and nothing came of that plan either.



Source: https://scenesto.com/2019/10/15/roads-never-built/
The update is the possibility it is built still 0.00% because it's absolutely not needed and never was and never will be.
 

toronto647

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The update is the possibility is still 0.00% because it's absolutely not needed and never was.
Have you been in that area? it is a total disaster zone and I can only imagine how worse it is going to get... Also the DVP is bottled up between Lawerence and Bayview. This can take some traffic out of that area.

In what sense was is it not needed?
 

Jonny5

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Have you been in that area? it is a total disaster zone and I can only imagine how worse it is going to get... Also the DVP is bottled up between Lawerence and Bayview. This can take some traffic out of that area.

In what sense was is it not needed?
"Have you been in that area? it is a total disaster zone".

Every driver ever in history about every road ever.
 

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