[DSC]

Are the grandiose plans for the sheltered transit hub actually likely to happen, or are they more like concept art? I find this project really inspiring but I don't want to get my hopes up too high

Grandiose plans & renderings tend to be watered down (i.e. cheapened) as reality sets in. You would be wise not to get your hopes too high for either a speedy completion (or start!) of this huge project or that it might look like any of the renderings we have yet seen.

 

[Towered]

Don't expect another St. Pancras. We don't do grand.

 

[Amare]

Don't expect another St. Pancras. We don't do grand.

We only do grand for parking garages (a la the Palace at Bloomington GO). I'll be surprised if we even see adequate shelters in the transit "hub".

 

[3Dementia]

Honest question, are there precedents for lively after-hours office/entertainment districts with no residential component? All the examples I can think of have at least some on-site residential.

^ *As you noted in another post, some dramatic improvements are needed to properly link the future neighbourhoods of the Portlands to East Harbour.

There was a fair bit of criticism on another forum about the city's perceived East Harbour commercial-only position. Most comments were of this sort:
“Why no residential? It risks being a a glorified office park. Amazon and organizations seeking corporate campuses desire and understand the need for mixed-use communities.”

This was the gist of my reply on that forum regarding East Harbour (essentially the same stuff I posted in a UT Politics thread):
"Given the thousands of built-u/c- proposed residences west (East Don Lands), south (Lower Don Lands) and north (established and growing), plus my firm belief that there will ultimately be residential here (it already has other uses planned to animate the site already including retail sites, cultural and public spaces, entertainment, parks and restaurants etc.), in some ways East Harbour is not that different from many large downtown office districts. Bear in mind that King and Bay in Toronto was a ghost town after 6 pm until large neighbouring residential projects began to sprout (and the mini-city known as Southcore).

Also, while much of the Portlands will be mid-rise residential (flight path issues for one reason), you can see a hint of the tall massing of the northern part of the Portlands (just to the left of East Harbour in the render below) which will yield a very large residential community on its own, right next door*.

UT

UT

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

If the intent is for this district to become an entertainment hub after working hours, then residential on-site is not necessarily required if the surrounding neighbourhoods are dense with residential intensification and the area is well connected to the City's transit network.

I am all for mixed-use, but I don't want to compromise on the site's potential for entertainment and nightlife by forcing significant residential right on top of it. We should be learning from the experience of the entertainment district, not looking to copy it.

I can already hear the complaints about this area being as dead as the Financial District after 6pm, but it really doesn't have to be with the right public realm and landscaping, commercial activity at ground level, entertainment facilities and event programming. Which all should be pursued at the site anyway.

 

[Dec_1999]

My question about this development that I wasn't clear on is whether this place will incorporate an 'Eaton centre east' or large shopping district. From early 2017 plans, I saw on blogTO that a Yorkdale-sized shopping complex will be implemented in the east end at this development. I am unclear whether that will still happen or whether more boutique retail will arise. it'll also be nice to have more than just glass box towers.

 

[Mercenary]

It will provide a nice symmetry to Toronto.

You have a major development at 2150 Lake Shore which can serve as Downtown West, then the main Downtown at the financial district and now East Harbor serving as Downtown East. They will all have GO Transit, and in the future Subway connections, etc.

If only they can develop Toronto North Station at Yonge and Rosedale so Bloor and Yonge can get GO Train as well and can become Downtown North.

In short, Toronto will have 4 Major Business Districts along with the mini ones that run up the spine of Yonge Subway at St.Clair, Eglinton and Sheppard.

 

[tstormers]

My question about this development that I wasn't clear on is whether this place will incorporate an 'Eaton centre east' or large shopping district. From early 2017 plans, I saw on blogTO that a Yorkdale-sized shopping complex will be implemented in the east end at this development. I am unclear whether that will still happen or whether more boutique retail will arise. it'll also be nice to have more than just glass box towers.

There is supposed to be a large retail potion proposed in this project. In and around 1 million sqft of space in the 1st floors and the first basement level similar to the Path system downtown. the numbers might have shifted but I am positive this would still be apart of making this area lively past the typical office hours.

 

[Northern Light]

My question about this development that I wasn't clear on is whether this place will incorporate an 'Eaton centre east' or large shopping district. From early 2017 plans, I saw on blogTO that a Yorkdale-sized shopping complex will be implemented in the east end at this development. I am unclear whether that will still happen or whether more boutique retail will arise. it'll also be nice to have more than just glass box towers.

First important advice; never take BlogTO particularly seriously.

They often cover real stories, with grossly-misleading clickbait headlines and stories that are under researched and quite often get the details wrong.

That said.

Yes, there is a plan for lots of retail here. In the general vicinity of 2,000,000ft2 which is larger than Yorkdale (for now).

However, this is in no way shape or form to be a mall.

More than 1/2 the contemplated retail would be accessible from outside only (no interior entrance); the retail would span many free-standing buildings.

So it really would not resemble either Eaton Centre or Yorkdale.

 

[allengeorge]

I’m not sure that building retail in a PATH format is the way to go. I’d rather street-level but that’s me.

 

[Dec_1999]

I'm quite happy that it won't be a mall, and that hopefully will support locally owned retail too. ^ thanks for the clarification

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Malls are somewhat antiquated. I am sure that Cadillac Fairview is more interested in recreating commercial space that looks something like what's coming to The Well rather than say, Fairview Mall.

 

[Amare]

It will provide a nice symmetry to Toronto.

You have a major development at 2150 Lake Shore which can serve as Downtown West, then the main Downtown at the financial district and now East Harbor serving as Downtown East. They will all have GO Transit, and in the future Subway connections, etc.

If only they can develop Toronto North Station at Yonge and Rosedale so Bloor and Yonge can get GO Train as well and can become Downtown North.

In short, Toronto will have 4 Major Business Districts along with the mini ones that run up the spine of Yonge Subway at St.Clair, Eglinton and Sheppard.

While I love your optimism, let's hold up on calling Humber Bay a potential "downtown west". While the office space to be developed is not insignificant, it's far from what is/will be proposed for East Harbour. Etobicoke City Centre will still have more office space compared to Humber Bay when all is said and done.

As for Yonge and Summerhill, while I would love to see GO service along the midtown corridor, until the provincial government gets serious about the Missing Link, we will never see anything done there. Which is unfortunate because the longer we wait, the more Toronto keeps allowing developments to slowly encroach closer and closer to the rail line.

 

[Dec_1999]

It will provide a nice symmetry to Toronto.

You have a major development at 2150 Lake Shore which can serve as Downtown West, then the main Downtown at the financial district and now East Harbor serving as Downtown East. They will all have GO Transit, and in the future Subway connections, etc.

If only they can develop Toronto North Station at Yonge and Rosedale so Bloor and Yonge can get GO Train as well and can become Downtown North.

In short, Toronto will have 4 Major Business Districts along with the mini ones that run up the spine of Yonge Subway at St.Clair, Eglinton and Sheppard.

Yonge-eglinton or 'midtown' colloquially is the 'downtown north' of Toronto. It is rapidly growing because of the future LRT and it is a major business district outside the downtown core.

 

[cd concept]

Yep ! I can see a GO line traveling on the CP tracks serving Yorkville and the Midtown areas to the north . And Dupont St and the Juntion area etc to the east and west. Using the defunct train station on Yonge Street. Servicing the city and the Toronto area when the population increases.